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The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

mstdn.ca

271–280 of 511 posts

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#271

Working in most jobs sucks. Some people are lucky to have jobs they love, but that's the minority. I know that to be the prevalent sentiment even in top notch, AAA, "I can't believe they pay me to do this" companies such as Google, Apple etc. If people had, for the sake of a thought experiment, a guaranteed 20K/month income and free healthcare no matter what they do with their life, it's very unlikely they will choos…

> They will instead generally pursue arts/crafts (including the craft of building computer programs in areas they are interested in), learning, exercise etc.

I always hear this argument about UBI and it almost sounds too good to be true. Like utopian. And I wonder what segment of population will actually become artists and craftsmen with renewed sense of purpose and fulfillment vs. the folks that will accelerate even further into melancholy and feelings of deep meaninglessness.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#272

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

I think it's important to note that the good old days of a working man being able to support a family of five was only true for a brief period of history in a handful of elite countries. In most of the world, and for most of human history, it hasn't been the case that any single person working 40 hours a week could provide a luxurious lifestyle for a large family. While some lament the loss of this golden age their g…

All of that is true, even in the US. It is a false narrative that the "middle class is collapsing" in the US

There is a very narrow band, and very specific regions in the US where that is true unfortunately for the the rest of us the people and regions where this is the reality those people hold outsized control over the media, and government so it gives the appearance it is a universal reality. The World Is Becoming a Better Place[1]

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J5s6aZCPSg

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could you explain? Someone who understood basic economics wouldn't assert that investors are ruining the housing market for individual family buyers without explaining how the housing market or one particular housing market is different from all the other markets were investors are helpful for bringing products and services to individuals and families. I am sympathetic for example to the argument that the housing ma…

>Someone who understood basic economics wouldn't assert that investors are ruining the housing market for individual family buyers without explaining how the housing market or one particular housing market is different from all the other markets were investors are helpful for bringing products and services to individuals and families. So the housing market is different because housing serves as shelter. Investors own…

I'd argue that housing's being a necessity makes it even more important for there to be a reliable and predictable supply--something investors help with, IMO, except for unusual pathological cases.

Chinese home buyers IIRC have a cultural aversion to having strangers living in any home they might want to live in themselves in the future. But with the except of the Chinese investors (which IMO cannot be numerous enough to distort the huge US housing market) investors either rent out or sell the housing they own, so I don't understand in what sense you think investors are "eschewing the actual utility of the asset": someone still gets to live in the house, even if it is not the owner of the house.

>All of this means that some portion of the house's price is only based on speculation (other parts being land, construction quality, location, amenities, etc.).

I concede that that can be an accurate statement (though it is not how I would put it) on a temporary basis, but I point out that when an investment causes current housing prices to increase, there will invariably be a time in the future when the same investment causes housing prices to be lower than they otherwise would be by approximately the same amount. And the I ask you, Why do you care more about situation of families now than about their situation in the future?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#274
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a similar vein, this poem by Pedro Pietri: Telephone Booth (number 905 1/2) woke up this morning feeling excellent, picked up the telephone dialed the number of my equal opportunity employer to inform him I will not be into work today Are you feeling sick? the boss asked me No Sir I replied: I am feeling too good to report to work today, if I feel sick tomorrow I will come in early

My company would call that taking a mental health day, which is considered a legitimate reason for not coming into work.

Easy to do as a knowledge worker, but I've had plenty of jobs where you get in trouble for resting.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#275
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard the argument that a negative effect of the post WW2 "feminist" movement (by that I mean women in the work force) has had the long term effect of causing prices to simply adjust to the dual income household, to the point that now it is a necessity. It is a privileged family today that can afford to live comfortably on only one salary.

Theres another level to this going on in certain places too. Its not enough to have both partners working. Now in places like the bay area if you want to be competitive in the housing market, both partners have to be working high income jobs not just working at all. Even if you have a great title, if your partner doesnt, you will be lapped by people who have vastly more buying power than either of you can ever muster…

Rust belt cities are actually pretty nice, and you can escape that rat race. Maybe you don't want to live there, but they are nice places.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could remove all the arcane laws, regulations, and zoning which make constructing new houses ludicrously expensive. Most people would be perfectly happy to live even in a shoddy log cabin built by them and their family if it meant they would could save those hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars they would've spent otherwise to improve their lives in other ways. This alone could be enough to shave dec…

> You could disallow corporate ownership of dwellings of any sort Does that mean no high density residential? I can’t see how individuals build apartment buildings.

How do individuals end up owning apartments today?

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#277

As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I eve…

> One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I even called this out during a formal performance review and her behavior hasn't changed at all. (Work-from-home abuse is another component of this observation.) Good for her, it takes confidence to do this. Overworking engineers into burnout isn’t a healthy career path.

I was going to say, she sounds like someone I'd want in management. Confidently putting life before work in the work/life balance is the way to avoid burnout, maximize creativity and hire amazing people.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#278

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

>plus save enough to retire comfortably Individual saving for retirement was cooked up in the 80s. You used to get your pension and be set.

If you were lucky. Many did not get a pension at all though. And many others had a pension that went bankrupt so they go nothing. The 1980s (starting before then) were reforms on a system that wasn't working well for many.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#279
I really think we are modern slaves in a pseudo-liberal capitalistic wrapper. It's going to become clearer to future generations looking back, similar to how we are now able to detect and understand mistakes of the past. Male toxicity and patriarchy for example only recently began to surface as a mistake.

While we still jobs and offer our services to society there are a number of things that need to fix and delete from our collective consciousness. All these stem from the same root of evil: the office. Similar to plants, we, the workers are gathering there, under some occult organizational umbrella which sometimes resembles a "family". We need to be there on a specific time, do specific things, we are being monitored and controlled. We need to behave in a certain way and leave our true self at home. We need to blindly obey a person called "the boss" or "the manager" and act under some military discipline executing commands. We need to climb some ladder of promises, most of which fail to deliver. This is a dark place full of lack of trust, insecurity and control.

Diversity, flexible working, remote working, shared vision and mission are some of the things that we have realized and applied. I am glad that we did but there is still a lot of work to be done. Working needs to be more like the freelancer/consultant type where possible: get the job done and you're paid attitude, rather than a weird let's have you around stand-by just in case. Similar to how an electrician comes to your place fixes the damage and immediately leaves, where possible workers need to do the same. Can you imagine your electrician spending her day at your place, 9-5? Sitting there just in case? And you will get to threaten, trash talk, be the boss and give orders.

We are still in the Palaeolithic era when it comes to how we work, with some improvements indeed but with also the heaviest pressure from the most powerful people globally.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#280

The gig economy has worn many out... The promise of services like social media, Uber, Political Parties, and airBnB that promised to create wealthy entrepreneurs fell flat on it's face after making the people at the top of the pyramids very wealthy. I think that social media really tipped the balance of fairness in the working world... With social media, suddenly Trust fund Babies could fake success, and promote sche…

If someone isn’t successful in making money on that work, though, it means it isn’t very good. I know it’s not a 1:1 result, but in reality, if you put in the hours and you make things people want, you will be successful. The problem is everyone who works on something they’re passionate about (even if they suck at it) thinks they ought to be compensated, even if their contributions amount to exactly Jack shit. Meanwh…

I don't think that's true. Think about musicians -- someone can create incredible music and never make enough to support themselves, it happens all the time. Same with visual art. It has much less to do with quality and more to do with social trends, having a certain "look" or identity, etc. Sure, hard work and not sucking are the prerequisites, but they aren't enough on their own.
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