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Welcome to Wikifunctions

wikifunctions.org

121–130 of 179 posts

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#121
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Wikipedia asks me for donations but does company off-sites in Switzerland with Google?

Do you think they should have to embrace austerity because they’ve asked for donations? Or do you think they can use donations in lieu of advertising dollars and otherwise function like any other similar company? Do you think it’s possible they were invited by google.org or received donations for the off-site itself? I guess I’m not sure why this is remotely worth commenting on, but it seems to have struck a nerve. I…

>Do you think they should have to embrace austerity because they’ve asked for donations?

"Not embracing austerity" is one thing, "asking for donations" is another thing, "what Wikimedia currently does" is something completely different from these two things.

When you get a banner featuring Jimmy Wales with the words "Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales" and then something like this:

>To all our readers in the UK,

>Please don’t scroll past this. This Friday, for the 1st time recently, we interrupt your reading to humbly ask you to support Wikipedia’s independence. Only 2% of our readers give. Many think they’ll give later, but then forget. If you donate just £2, or whatever you can this Friday, Wikipedia could keep thriving for years.

The impression is that Wikipedia (NOT Wikimedia) is in need of money to keep operating, which is simply not true.

Wikipedia has got more than enough money to keep operating, if Wikipedia, ever in our lifetimes, goes under, it won't be because they weren't given enough money but because they mishandled it.

It's like having a beggar come to you saying that he needs to eat, then seeing him 20 minutes later driving a porsche. I consider this to be abhorrent behavior. I donated once and will NEVER. EVER do it again and I advise nobody does it. If you want to do a good deed donate to the Internet Archive.

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#122
post #68
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you're not the only one to think that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2...

Wow. This feels like someone has taken a Borges parody and ran with it: > What is the scope of the new "Wikipedia of functions"? > [...] Vrandečić explained the concept of Abstract Wikipedia and a "wiki for functions" using an example describing political happenings involving San Francisco mayor London Breed: > "Instead of saying "in order to deny her the advantage of the incumbent, the board votes in January 2018 to…

Reminds me of this section of Cryptonomicon:

"""

RIST 9E03 is the RIST that RIST 11A4 denotes by the arbitrarily chosen bit-pattern that, construed as an integer, is 9E03 (in hexadecimal notation). Click here for more about the system of bit-pattern designators used by RIST 11A4 to replace the obsolescent nomenclature systems of "natural languages." Click here if you would like the designator RIST 9E03 to be automatically replaced by a conventional designator (name) as you browse this web site.

Click.

From now on. the expression RIST 9E03 will be replaced by the expression Andrew Loeb. Warning: we consider such nomenclature fundamentally invalid, and do not recommend its use, but have provided it as a service to first-time visitors to this Web site who are not accustomed to thinking in terms of RISTs.

... Click.

RIST stands for Relatively Independent Sub-Totality.

... Click.

A hive mind is a social organization of RISTs that are capable of processing semantic memes ("thinking"). These could be either carbon-based or silicon-based. RISTs who enter a hive mind surrender their independent identities (which are mere illusions anyway). For purposes of convenience, the constituents of the hive mind are assigned bit-pattern designators.

Click.

A bit-pattern designator is a random series of bits used to uniquely identify a RIST.

"""

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#123

There is a link on the main page titled "Decolonizing Functions", which leads to... https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Abstract_... I'm not sure if that is satire, or for that matter this whole site.

That page seems totally reasonable and admirable to me. It’s literally just advocating for including the wide and varied history of algorithm development, in order to encourage readers from many different backgrounds to find ways to connect with the important topic.

>It’s literally just advocating for including the wide and varied history of algorithm development, in order to encourage readers from many different backgrounds to find ways to connect with the important topic.

I'm at a loss of words for what I feel towards respecting (even promoting!) the idea that a piece of knowledge ought to become interesting or valuable if there is ethnic relationship to it. It reeks of supremacist talk to me.

If someone came up to me saying that he got into mathematics because Charles Babbage was a white guy, just like him, I'd think that person doesn't belong in current society. This doesn't change if the person belongs to any minority.

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#124
post #121
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think they should have to embrace austerity because they’ve asked for donations? Or do you think they can use donations in lieu of advertising dollars and otherwise function like any other similar company? Do you think it’s possible they were invited by google.org or received donations for the off-site itself? I guess I’m not sure why this is remotely worth commenting on, but it seems to have struck a nerve. I…

>Do you think they should have to embrace austerity because they’ve asked for donations? "Not embracing austerity" is one thing, "asking for donations" is another thing, "what Wikimedia currently does" is something completely different from these two things. When you get a banner featuring Jimmy Wales with the words "Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales" and then something like this: >To…

> if Wikipedia, ever in our lifetimes, goes under, it won't be because they weren't given enough money

I agree, I think it will be because they'll accept more money from commercial actors on the terms of whoever these actors are – Google currently does not seem to force any conditions on WP, as far as I can tell.

> If you want to do a good deed donate to the Internet Archive.

I agree with this as well but I consider both Wikimedia and the Internet Archive as extremely important.

Charitable causes always are at risk of "wasting" money. But the reason for that is that in a purely capitalistic sense the cause itself is not profitable.

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong on two counts: 1) translation is not the same as abstraction and 2) having the world's encyclopedia translated by an advertising company is not exactly everybody's idea for how things should be organized Of course wrong criticism doesnt mean the project is a success (i think its been going for a few years now). The documentation in particular does not highlight what this infrastructure is good for.

What is the value in Wikpedia abstracting the language in its articles apart from translation?

Similar to abstracting maps and geography into GIS data and getting things like geographic proximity and POI-type filtering with lower overhead than creating a category tree for place articles in Wikipedia.

For instance, Wikipedia right now relies quite a lot entirely on manual tagging (authored categories) for classifying related subjects. If you want a list of all notable association footballers, for instance, then the best way to get one is to go to Category:Association football players. But then you're stuck in a very human, flawed, and often in-flux attempt to reach a consensus definition of that, and the list remains out of reach. (Hell, American players are categorized as "soccer players" under the same tree, confounding things like search, because that's the kind of thing Americans do.)

With abstraction, you get classification for much less, and the consensus problem moves from an arbitrary, authored category tree to a much narrower space. If an article is about a footballer, and the abstract data for that subject contains occupation Q937857 (association football player). The dialect and language don't matter — a footballer is a footballer. If you just want a list of footballers, you can get just a list of footballers without even going near things like SPARQL: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinks...

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#126
So I spent what amounts to almost an hour today being amazed and entertained by the perceiced absurdity of this.

Now, after a good dinner, reading the FAQ again, I'm starting to roughly feel like this might actually make sense, in another world, or maybe it might even make sense in reality when better fleshed-out?

And also I start to remember what this reminds me of (plenty of other entertaining references already here in the comments):

https://thedailywtf.com/articles/the-inner-json-effect

  Two days later he started poking around. He started with a seemingly-innocuous file called “customers.json” and stared in confusion at its contents:

      {
        "File" : "Customers.json",
        "Class" : "Customers",
        "Author" : "redacted@redacted.com",
        "Purpose" : "",
        "Functions" : [
            568,
            899,
            900,
            901,
            902,
            1877,
            2880
        ]
    }

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#127
post #44

This has to be one of the most confusing documentation sites I have ever seen. Maybe I just don't get it, since I never edited Wikipedia. Opening some of the pages at random, like https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z828 https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z110 There's a "try this function" section, which I couldn't get to take any sort of input on a few tries. It always ended up with a field that said "no result…

https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:What_Wikifu...

> We are not competing with sites such as gist, or sites such as [...] esolangs.org

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#128
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "outrage"? Might as well ask why you are going insane with hatred over a simple question. How would that feel? Would you even bother to respond to something like that?

I responded in attempt to explain the viewpoint of the other side, by using an analogy (that can be familiar to people who do computers). There is no "insane hatred" in my response, on the contrary, I was trying to expand the PP's perspective. PP seemed to be concerned about the word "decolonization" specifically, rather than the actual goal of properly organizing the history, and seemed annoyed by it enough to comme…

> There is no "insane hatred" in my response

I know. My point was just that it's a needless escalation (just like replying that to you would have been), since even annoyance isn't outrage.

Either way it's talking about the inner emotions of a person on their behalf - flagged or not, how could someone possibly defend themselves against that? People can talk about their own feelings if they want, but talking about the feelings of others, feelings those other people didn't even express, just doesn't lead anywhere good, yet it's so common on the web nowadays. The wisdom of not reading feelings into text has been lost for a long time now. Let's bring it back I say :)

In short, you can ask people how they feel, but you can't tell them. Certainly not via text in absence of a history of actually knowing that individual person (as opposed to "a category of person you perceive that individual to belong to", which is how this came across to me).

> they are also welcome to clarify whatever objections they have with respect to that project.

Yes, and I can't say I disagree with it being flagged because "is this a joke?" is just needlessly convoluted. Just make your point, state where you disagree with the content etc. instead of asking others to rephrase or confirm that yes, they're serious. To me that's just as annoying as saying "y u mad bro?". But since it's already agreed that that's no good, I didn't reiterate that.

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#129
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abstract Wikipedia is in my opinion fully wasted work. Translation is free and instant for web pages. I've lived for 6 years in different countries where I don't speak the local language (and am also not native English speaking) and you can get all the information you need by translating. This works totally fine already today with Google translate on top of pages. And the pages that are in fact missing from "the othe…

This is wrong on two counts: 1) translation is not the same as abstraction and 2) having the world's encyclopedia translated by an advertising company is not exactly everybody's idea for how things should be organized Of course wrong criticism doesnt mean the project is a success (i think its been going for a few years now). The documentation in particular does not highlight what this infrastructure is good for.

Denny Vrandečić — the lead developer of Wikifunctions, former Germany PM of Wikidata, co-developer of Semantic Wikipedia, and former member of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees — also helped develop Google's Knowledge Graph from 2013 to 2020. None of this is hidden, it's even on his Wikipedia article.[1]

The "having the world's encyclopedia translated by an advertising company" ship sailed years ago. All of these projects are supported, directly and indirectly, by exactly that motivation. The ultimate goal of commercial enterprises is to take zero-cost volunteer projects like Wikipedia and OpenStreetMap and make them cheaper for enterprises to associate user input with compatible monetization. It's now just a bonus side-effect, rather than their mission, that any public good comes from these projects.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Vrande%C4%8Di%C4%87

Re: Welcome to Wikifunctions

#130
post #44

This has to be one of the most confusing documentation sites I have ever seen. Maybe I just don't get it, since I never edited Wikipedia. Opening some of the pages at random, like https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z828 https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z110 There's a "try this function" section, which I couldn't get to take any sort of input on a few tries. It always ended up with a field that said "no result…

We didn’t want to announce Wikifunctions before you can edit it (what’s a wiki if you can’t edit it?).

It is currently in locked-down testing. We have been slowly configuring and testing the wiki, the first new multilingual project in over 12 years! It is more complicated than a normal new wiki, in many ways.

We are expecting to open it to broader editing in the next few days - on or after August 1. We are planning an announcement at that time.

There are details of the deployment plan in our last newsletter: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Abstract_...

And a broad overview of the project at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Overview

(And many more examples of functions at our older Beta-deployment location (also currently locked down) at https://wikifunctions.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Ma... )

I hope that context helps! [Disclaimer: I'm not a developer, but work with the team]

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