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Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

mattmazur.com

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Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#51

Post by patio11 »

vlad wrote: post #4

I don't think you had a failed poker software business. You wrote, released, and announced some software. That's simply step one, and the very minimum. Next, you need to iterate, which may include adding features found in other software, creating a web version, and more. I see very few lessons here, and they are on how to fail.

I have a small software business, and I always say that 95% of the business value is not produced in the compiler. Its marketing, support, marketing, SEO, marketing, advertising, marketing, documentation, marketing, etc.

Oh, and there is some software involved, too. But product quality only goes so far if your strategy for marketing is "I put it up on the Internet and eventually people find me". (That _can_ work but you have to have God's own luck AND an amazing product.)

Here's another lesson for you: if people are not buying your software, the answer is NOT to charge less. You can't convince people who aren't at your site to buy by offering them a discount -- they can't see the discount. On the other hand, folks who then see the discounted price as the "normal" price mentally value it to match. And software which only costs $10 is worthless. You are selling me a tool to _make money_ and can't justify a price higher than $10?

(I leave it to your imagination what I think of the "Make it free and try monetizing with ads!" advice you'll find elsewhere in this discussion.)

I sell software which is so trivial that technical types have difficulty believing it sells at all. My customers love me, and are happy to part with $25. And I should really get around to raising that one of these days. Should sell about $20k this year, which isn't quite quit-the-day-job money but on an hourly basis works out to "pretty freaking sweet". Not to crimp the startup style here but, erm, charging people money for value remains a decent business model.

Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#52

Post by thomasmallen »

arockwell wrote: post #22
Tichy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying that it would have been successful, hard to say. But reading "Advertising is a tax for being unremarkable” seems a bit harsh. In some businesses, there simply is no other way. For example recently I heard from some online dating services that they really boil down to the hard calculation of "how expensive is it to convert a user we bought with advertising". Like if they raise their conversion rates, they c…

If they're spending that much money on advertising doesn't that imply that they are unremarkable? Advertising isn't a bad thing, but if your only differentiator is advertising you're probably screwed.

"Early to bed, early to rise, work like hell and advertise."

- Ted Turner

Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#53

Post by brent »

mattmaroon wrote: post #48
brent wrote: post #41

$10 (or $40) isn't enough for me to take you serious. Would you make a move on $10 stock advice?

I would buy a $10 program that aided me in making stock picks if it were simply doing mathematical computations for me. This is more the equivalent of a program that computes PE and dividend ratios than one that says "Buy AAPL at $95". Except that dividend ratios can be computed trivially in your head, while equity against a range of holdings given certain chip stacks cannot.

Point taken. I didn't read the details. Sounds more like it truly is worth $0.

Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#54

Post by mattmaroon »

brent wrote: post #53
mattmaroon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would buy a $10 program that aided me in making stock picks if it were simply doing mathematical computations for me. This is more the equivalent of a program that computes PE and dividend ratios than one that says "Buy AAPL at $95". Except that dividend ratios can be computed trivially in your head, while equity against a range of holdings given certain chip stacks cannot.

Point taken. I didn't read the details. Sounds more like it truly is worth $0.

Yeah I'm not sure exactly what it does that some of the free ones don't.

Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#55

Post by rms »

mattmaroon wrote: post #47
rms wrote: post #42

Why don't you give it away for free to people who sign up using your affiliate link for a poker room?

Hard to make any money that way. Most people who want this type of program already have accounts at the one or two sites worth playing at.

I was thinking of this program, which is distributed that way. http://www.calculatem.com/ There are a lot of casual users who would definitely be interested in something to give them an edge, but I guess the problem is they don't know such programs exist.

And sure, most people probably already have accounts at their preferred sites, but it doesn't hurt to have it as an option. It's easy enough to open a new poker account (well, it was when I was playing before Bush messed things up) and getting the typical bonus + software could be enough to play for a week at a second tier site.

Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#56

Post by mattmaroon »

rms wrote: post #55
mattmaroon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to make any money that way. Most people who want this type of program already have accounts at the one or two sites worth playing at.

I was thinking of this program, which is distributed that way. http://www.calculatem.com/ There are a lot of casual users who would definitely be interested in something to give them an edge, but I guess the problem is they don't know such programs exist. And sure, most people probably already have accounts at their preferred sites, but it doesn't hurt to have it as an option. It's easy enough to open a new poker acc…

Those calculatem people are constantly emailing me asking if I'll link to them.

Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#57

Post by rms »

mattmaroon wrote: post #56
rms wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking of this program, which is distributed that way. http://www.calculatem.com/ There are a lot of casual users who would definitely be interested in something to give them an edge, but I guess the problem is they don't know such programs exist. And sure, most people probably already have accounts at their preferred sites, but it doesn't hurt to have it as an option. It's easy enough to open a new poker acc…

Those calculatem people are constantly emailing me asking if I'll link to them.

Looks like that strategy is working for them. http://www.google.com/search?q=poker+calculator

Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#58

Post by mattmaroon »

rms wrote: post #57
mattmaroon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those calculatem people are constantly emailing me asking if I'll link to them.

Looks like that strategy is working for them. http://www.google.com/search?q=poker+calculator

Yeah, not bad at all. It's labor-intensive, but does appear to pay off.

Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#59

Post by mikkom »

I think taking down the site was a bad idea, after reading your article, I would have bought it (my pain treshold for random purchases goes somewhere around $20 so if you decide to sell it for under that, please drop a notice).

I'm an entrepreneur myself (We sold our company to a quite big company about 1,5 years ago), I think what really went wrong was not the product, niche or anything like that. It was the marketing/sales. You should never underestimate how hard selling even a good product is.

also, this kind of a product will never "get old", the principles behind it will be the same forever so if it's good and you get enough people who purchase, you will get snowball effect by mouth to mouth marketing.

I think the worst decision you made was to waste your work when you took the site down. I also think your name is awful, it's so generic that it's hard to even find using google so what I would do is to republish the program with catchy name and add a link from your blog.

Also it's not a bad idea to hang in places like digitalpoint forums and hire some indian to submit your tool to X directories, that will cost you about $10-20 and you will get a lot of google goodness.

edit: you are giving it free now? Okay suits me but I would have bought it. How about adding at least a donation button?

Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business

#60

Post by aidanf »

matt1 wrote: post #29
aidanf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting article. I remember reading your announcement on 2p2 at the time. I went to your website and scanned the 2p2 thread. The main reason I didn't buy it was that from what I read it seemed like anything I could do with your program I could already do with PokerStove or StoxEV. And they're both free. If you want me to pay for poker software (and I've paid for lots of poker-related software) you have to convinc…

I guess the lesson there is that you have to clearly show how spending the money will benefit the customer. I agree, the homepage didn't do it very well. Thanks for the post. What did you think of StoxEV?

I found StoxEv to be quite powerful but also quite complex. It took me a while to figure out how to use it. But once I grokked it, it's a powerful program that can facilitate very detailed analysis of a hand.

Having said that, I don't actually use it that much - for most situations I find PokerStove is good enough.

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