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The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

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Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#211

Post by lezojeda »

m0rissette wrote: post #76
usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

I mean maybe I have work ethic or am lucky. But I don’t struggle to pay mortgage, buy cars, or go on vacations and I am the sole breadwinner for my family… but I also started programming in 3rd grade in the 90s, didn’t go to college so have no debt, and live a pretty non materialistic punk rock life.

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Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#212

Post by brtkdotse »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #115
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #58

As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I eve…

I've seen the same thing in others and in myself, but I'd put it as pre- and post-Agile/Jira. The industry used to be full of enthusiasm but now it's like Office Space.

I think it’s because we’ve realized we’re not building a better future but rather Yet Another Online Ad* System.

* “online ad” can be replaced with “gig economy” if you like

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#213

Post by pmulard »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #161
winternett wrote: post #31

The gig economy has worn many out... The promise of services like social media, Uber, Political Parties, and airBnB that promised to create wealthy entrepreneurs fell flat on it's face after making the people at the top of the pyramids very wealthy. I think that social media really tipped the balance of fairness in the working world... With social media, suddenly Trust fund Babies could fake success, and promote sche…

If someone isn’t successful in making money on that work, though, it means it isn’t very good. I know it’s not a 1:1 result, but in reality, if you put in the hours and you make things people want, you will be successful. The problem is everyone who works on something they’re passionate about (even if they suck at it) thinks they ought to be compensated, even if their contributions amount to exactly Jack shit. Meanwh…

I disagree with your premise - just because someone doesn’t make money on their work doesn’t mean it’s not good. We live in a capitalistic society, where the laws of supply and demand rule.

You’re able to make good money in carpentry by simply showing up, because there aren’t many carpenters left. Just like my cousin is able to do the same with landscaping. It’s all work fewer people are doing.

Other friends of mine, some of the most talented and hardworking people I know, have tried their stints on broadway, television, journalism, etc. and are struggling massively. Is it because they aren’t good? Of course not. It’s because there are 1,000 people lined up behind them who are just as good. And there’s another 1,000 behind that group who aren’t quite as good but are willing to do it for poverty wages.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#214

Post by monsieurbanana »

welshwelsh wrote: post #185
usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

A working man can still support a family of five, buy a house, a car and a vacation once or twice a year. He just needs to be realistic. House: you can still find houses with plenty of room for ~$100k. It just needs to be in an affordable area: think McKeesport, not San Francisco. Car: for $5k you can get a 2005 Ford Focus or Honda Civic. They're reliable cars that will get you from A to B perfectly fine, easy to rep…

You forgot those damn avocado toasts

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#215

Post by muro »

alisonatwork wrote: post #205
usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

I think it's important to note that the good old days of a working man being able to support a family of five was only true for a brief period of history in a handful of elite countries. In most of the world, and for most of human history, it hasn't been the case that any single person working 40 hours a week could provide a luxurious lifestyle for a large family. While some lament the loss of this golden age their g…

First it was "support a family of five", then "luxurious lifestyle" then "humble lifestyle". Except for the "luxurious" one, it was possible pretty much at any time in human history, including now.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#216

Post by SoftTalker »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #115
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #58

As a tech lead, the big problem I see now is that people are not hungry anymore. The best engineers I've ever worked with were consistently asking for more and leveling up the team at the same time. Now, the post-covid hires, especially the junior engineers, just do the bare minimum to scrape by, and they seem totally unbothered by it. One new hire on my team spends upwards of 2 hours per day "walking her dog." I eve…

I've seen the same thing in others and in myself, but I'd put it as pre- and post-Agile/Jira. The industry used to be full of enthusiasm but now it's like Office Space.

Interesting observation, it hadn't occurred to me but I think you're right. My dissatisfaction with software work started right around the time that agile practices became popular. The work changed, and started feeling like less of a craft and more like flipping burgers.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#217

Post by AntiRemote »

z7 wrote: post #36

Noam Chomsky: "For two millennia the idea of getting a job was regarded as a fundamental attack against basic human rights and human dignity. Why? Because getting a job means accepting servitude to a master. It means saying, 'Okay, I'll rent myself to you for most of my waking life and I will follow your orders during this period.' That was considered an utter abomination. By now it's sort of taken for granted. But s…

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Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#218

Post by mostlylurks »

momirlan wrote: post #106
usrbinbash wrote: post #53

It's pretty simple really. If the reward from working is barely enough to cover the necessities, then there is technically no difference between working as a free citizen, and being forced to work as an indentured servant, other than a vague notion of freedom, which in that case is the freedom to decide between working and living on the streets. And people don't like being indentured servants. History should have mad…

i agree 100% , but what is the solution to that ? just raising wages en masse erodes the power of money and leads to inflation.

You could remove all the arcane laws, regulations, and zoning which make constructing new houses ludicrously expensive. Most people would be perfectly happy to live even in a shoddy log cabin built by them and their family if it meant they would could save those hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars they would've spent otherwise to improve their lives in other ways. This alone could be enough to shave decades off the career of the average person.

You could disallow corporate ownership of dwellings of any sort, and heavily tax ownership of more than two homes per family unit.

You could provide significant tax benefits to lifestyles that approach self-sufficiency, such as people in rural areas that grow their own food.

You could mandate a quota of completely remote workers for many industries, encouraging the diffusion of people and opportunities across the country, instead of everyone rushing to expensive cities in hopes of finding work.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#219

Post by irrational »

shove wrote: post #32
cypherpunks01 wrote: post #22

I found 2011 to be the most enlightening quote: > Man, what a weird week. Unless it's on their own terms, it seems nobody wants to work anymore. It's the only one with any acknowledgement that agreeable terms may actually be needed in order to attract people to work. It doesn't take a PhD to figure this out! Utah Phillips, one of my favorite storytellers and all-around anarchist and hobo has a line I was reminded of:…

In a similar vein, this poem by Pedro Pietri: Telephone Booth (number 905 1/2) woke up this morning feeling excellent, picked up the telephone dialed the number of my equal opportunity employer to inform him I will not be into work today Are you feeling sick? the boss asked me No Sir I replied: I am feeling too good to report to work today, if I feel sick tomorrow I will come in early

My company would call that taking a mental health day, which is considered a legitimate reason for not coming into work.

Re: The Long History of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore

#220

Post by [deleted] »

eggy wrote: post #170
bbarn wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard the argument that a negative effect of the post WW2 "feminist" movement (by that I mean women in the work force) has had the long term effect of causing prices to simply adjust to the dual income household, to the point that now it is a necessity. It is a privileged family today that can afford to live comfortably on only one salary.

Privileged? I worked very hard to get that point of "privileged" to have had two single-job families. In the beginning I worked at different jobs out of necessity and in part, to see what suited me and what suited the work. I learned many different skills that helped me in my personal life - construction, housebuilding, coding (since 1978), electronics, welding, machining, technical diving, industrial rope access, or…

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