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How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

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Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#151

Post by camgunz »

brigadier132 wrote: post #119
camgunz wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is the people. Time and time again people vote for services even if it means higher taxes (especially on the rich and on corporations). This is because some things don't really work if they're only funded by individuals. For example, none of the infrastructure investments in the IRA, the Medicare block grants in the ACA, etc. Do you have good examples to the contrary, like not one-offs but large, compl…

> The government is the people The government is the majority. > Time and time again people vote for services even if it means higher taxes (especially on the rich and on corporations). This is because some things don't really work if they're only funded by individuals. Uh, I have a simpler explanation. People vote for things that are good for themselves and come up with contrived arguments for why that's moral. > To…

Well, I'm a little disappointed but not surprised that your posts are more "taxes are immoral" arguments without any substance about how we're supposed to do things without them. Even this latest post is like small quibbles and straw men about completely centralized societies. Feel free to round out your position on how we're supposed to run a society without taxes or just how we can spend money more "competently", but I think this is just another paper libertarian argument here.

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#152

Post by refurb »

metaphor wrote: post #86
refurb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean most of the really rich are rich from investments. Unless you're arguing that the banks and large companies are breaking the law by avoiding their reporting requirements to the IRS (to what benefit?) that makes no sense.

The games played by the wealthy and well-advised are largely within the gray areas of tax code buried between legal avoidance and illegal evasion[1]...in other words, certain sophisticated behavior remains "legal" if the IRS never gets an opportunity to audit and pursue litigation against. Herein lies the moral hazard bullshit. To tilt these game-theoretic bets overwhelmingly in favor of the wealthy, assert continuou…

Right, but again, tax revenue hasn't change over time as a percentage of GDP. The government is taking in the same percentage as it was during WW2.

And if you look at the percentage of all taxes paid by the wealthy, it's actually grown over time (become more progressive).

Of course that doesn't mean that some rich end up paying less than expected, but overall, the data doesn't support the idea that the rich overall aren't paying a substantial amount of taxes.

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#153

Post by camgunz »

brigadier132 wrote: post #111
JKCalhoun wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why take your property taxes to educate our nation's children when you don't even have children? Am I unfairly framing your argument? Society (that's us) want things for society and it turns out they cost money. We would love to pay for these things with razor-like efficiency but we live in an imperfect world. (The "waste" however still goes into someone's wallet and can be in turn spent at a local restaurant or on g…

> Why take your property taxes to educate our nation's children when you don't even have children? Am I unfairly framing your argument? I don't have property. The whole thing that set this entire discussion off was the parent poster that stated everyone that implied the government was wasteful was a paid shill by billionaires. > The only real issue I see is how we balance the tax burden in a fair and equitable way th…

Sure they are, we just need a wealth tax. Done and dusted.

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#154

Post by twoodfin »

karpierz wrote: post #137
00ff wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False, we never stopped taxing the rich. We reduced top marginal income tax rates though, so they moved more money into income and stopped hiding as much in shell companies and inventory. The top 1% earn 20% of national income, but their taxes comprise 40% of federal income tax revenue. US Gini coefficient (inequality measure) decreases by a third after accounting for taxes and transfers.

You start by saying that wealthy people can pretty freely manipulate the amount of income they show for tax purposes. The follow-up is that based on the manipulated income data, wealthy people pay disproportionately more taxes?

Right. The current low rates provide much stronger incentives to accurately report income vs. less efficient tax shelters and in-lieu-of-cash benefits. So we expect taxable income statistics to more accurately capture real earnings than under earlier tax regimes (particularly pre-1986).

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#155

Post by twoodfin »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #145
refurb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the primary reasons of how the rich get richer and how public services (our society) degrade is, that we stopped taxing them. Taxes as a percentage of GDP are pretty steady over time. We aren't really taxing less. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S

The story is pretty different if you include state and local taxes. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Fe...

As in we’re taxing way more!

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#156

Post by mistermann »

realityking wrote: post #69
willcipriano wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ven diagram of people who tell me that we can't possibly overthrow the government contrasted with people who say January 6th was a threat to democracy is essentially a circle.

I don‘t think those two statements are at odds at all. Consider that the Jan 6th insurrections were trying to keep the then current president, the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, in power. That‘s about as far from a citizen‘s only revolution as it could be.

FFS, change the intent.

What is it about this topic that renders people unable to think rationally? Imagine if software was written with this quality of thinking.

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#157

Post by [deleted] »

LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #125
seanp2k2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soooo, yet more rich folks using government money to grow their own riches?

If you want to be overly reductionist about it, that’s up to you. The reality that there’s never been a time in human history where this hasn’t been true. Why make perfect the enemy of good? Lots of rich people exploited PPP during the pandemic, does that mean the government shouldn’t ever hand out life-saving subsidies like that?

[deleted]

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#158

Post by gorwell »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #61
mycologos wrote: post #29

I know, I know, "bounties" are a fraught concept. Some people find "snitching" odious. But this is a tantalizing use case. All the author of this piece got out of their legwork was another article, but it also yielded some money for the federal government: > Two days after I emailed Finwall in April inquiring about the Xie Foundation’s purchase of the house, the foundation filed records with the California attorney g…

Another thought: What if all corporate accountants were required to be government employees? We can start with transnational companies first. Then LLCs and Incs. Disincentivize the massive fraud that we see today.

"In November 2022, DOD failed its fifth consecutive audit, unable to account for sixty-one percent of its $3.5 trillion in assets."

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#159

Post by nobodyandproud »

prepend wrote: post #66
nobodyandproud wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thought: What if all corporate accountants were required to be government employees? We can start with transnational companies first. Then LLCs and Incs. Disincentivize the massive fraud that we see today.

I think this would result in really poor accounting since there’s a big disconnect between a government employer and a company being audited and its books kept. In theory it works because the government auditor would be more interested in justice than corporate interests. In practice, an embedded external employee would not have the relationships to have viable information and would probably end up doing only the mos…

It depends on whether accountants’ concerns here are about auditing and fining (indirectly) for non-compliance, or if they’re allowed and expected to block projects.

For SEC compliance reporting, I’ve seen banks take it both very seriously and provide the absolute minimum to pass muster such that the COs could barely do their jobs.

What’s clear is that the “same old” and “reasonable” approaches aren’t working, and a disruption is needed.

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