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How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

propublica.org

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Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#11

Post by refurb »

throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #2

As a side note: One of the primary reasons of how the rich get richer and how public services (our society) degrade is, that we stopped taxing them. For decades now. Imho, its a shift of the represented interests in policies. We should stop pondering enshitification or greedflation an start seeing it as a systemic issue, that we can observe everywhere. https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Commodification#In_Marxist_th...

One of the primary reasons of how the rich get richer and how public services (our society) degrade is, that we stopped taxing them.

Taxes as a percentage of GDP are pretty steady over time. We aren't really taxing less.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#13

Post by elmalto »

koolba wrote: post #9
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US people have been brainwashed to think reasonable taxation is 'socialism' - something they need to have a religious objection to even if they don't know what it is.

There’s no such thing as “reasonable taxation” because it’s a subjective concept. It’s no better than saying “ the rich are not paying their fair share ”. Say you’re settling the tab for big dinner at a restaurant, if your rich friend pays for the steak he ordered, is that his fair share? If there’s 100 of you and he pays for 1/100 of the check, is that his fair share? What if he pays for half the tab, is that enough…

Sure as long as the society spends it on things that it deems important. Why is money made from money not taxed the same money made from labor? On the other hand, if money is considered free speech in the US, how can we even allow taxation at all? Isn’t taxation a form of censorship?

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#14

Post by throwawayqqq11 »

willcipriano wrote: post #8
throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not sure that extra money would actually mean anything In an ideal democracy it would. Its yet again misrepresented interests. And as an extend to my side note: The decades long shift of interest representation went from the public to the private sphere. The distrust in goverment may be justified, but its no counter argument, because the means of democratic participation is the only viable tool we have left. FU…

[flagged]

Do you know the last successful, citizen-only driven revolution? I would guess the french revolution ~1790 and it was a bloodbath. Today, the military technology has extended the power gap so much, that chopping heads off is no option for eg. north koreans without support from the outside.

I think a violent revolution would only tighten the surveilance state.

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#15

Post by markdown »

koolba wrote: post #9
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US people have been brainwashed to think reasonable taxation is 'socialism' - something they need to have a religious objection to even if they don't know what it is.

There’s no such thing as “reasonable taxation” because it’s a subjective concept. It’s no better than saying “ the rich are not paying their fair share ”. Say you’re settling the tab for big dinner at a restaurant, if your rich friend pays for the steak he ordered, is that his fair share? If there’s 100 of you and he pays for 1/100 of the check, is that his fair share? What if he pays for half the tab, is that enough…

> Is it reasonable for society, through taxes, to take more than half of what you earn?

So long as you have more than enough to live on, absolutely. If you make a billion dollars, then the govt taking 501 million is the absolute minimum that should be expected. Better they take 999 million and leave you the million dollars, as you don't need more than that to survive.

Further, the only reason you made a billion was from not paying the workers a living wage. The government's job is to redistribute the money so that everyone gets a fair share.

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#16

Post by throwawayqqq11 »

refurb wrote: post #11
throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #2

As a side note: One of the primary reasons of how the rich get richer and how public services (our society) degrade is, that we stopped taxing them. For decades now. Imho, its a shift of the represented interests in policies. We should stop pondering enshitification or greedflation an start seeing it as a systemic issue, that we can observe everywhere. https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Commodification#In_Marxist_th...

One of the primary reasons of how the rich get richer and how public services (our society) degrade is, that we stopped taxing them. Taxes as a percentage of GDP are pretty steady over time. We aren't really taxing less. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S

I think tieing tax income to gdp is as deceptive as hiding your income to dodge taxes.

The ultra wealthy can shift their assets as they please, the poor cannot. Maybe thats the reason why the graph is steady.

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#17

Post by sidewndr46 »

tyingq wrote: post #12

There's also the loophole of running a church and designating your home as a "parsonage". Laws vary by state, but there's several that don't mind fully exempting sprawling estates if you represent it as such.

I know someone who looked into this and since the facility was a business 5 days a week & a church on Sunday they gave him a 1/7 tax credit. OTOH it made sense, as all he had to do was find a congregation that wanted to meet there.

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#18

Post by PrimeMcFly »

koolba wrote: post #9
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US people have been brainwashed to think reasonable taxation is 'socialism' - something they need to have a religious objection to even if they don't know what it is.

There’s no such thing as “reasonable taxation” because it’s a subjective concept. It’s no better than saying “ the rich are not paying their fair share ”. Say you’re settling the tab for big dinner at a restaurant, if your rich friend pays for the steak he ordered, is that his fair share? If there’s 100 of you and he pays for 1/100 of the check, is that his fair share? What if he pays for half the tab, is that enough…

> There’s no such thing as “reasonable taxation” because it’s a subjective concept.

I disagree. There are models of economics that can project taxation rates that will have better outcomes for society. It's far from being primarily subjective.

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#19

Post by pravus »

throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #7
tourmalinetaco wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted we still “tax” them, as in the laws in place put income tax down, but they grow wealth by paying people full time to legally skirt taxation via schemes like this. However considering the current state of bloat governments are in, I’m not sure that extra money would actually mean anything. Except more to funnel into the military industrial complex and other black book projects.

> I’m not sure that extra money would actually mean anything In an ideal democracy it would. Its yet again misrepresented interests. And as an extend to my side note: The decades long shift of interest representation went from the public to the private sphere. The distrust in goverment may be justified, but its no counter argument, because the means of democratic participation is the only viable tool we have left. FU…

> Democracies cannot fail, only the people in it do.

I think this is false if only because the premise of Democracy is so poorly defined. What are we voting on? Why? Who is "we"?

Am I allowed to call a vote to strip you of your property? Am I allowed to call a vote to tell you what to eat? Am I allowed to call a vote to tell what to do or where to go?

Why or why not? We have laws today that do all of these things. What does "failure" mean?

Re: How the Rich Reap Huge Tax Breaks From Private Nonprofits

#20

Post by refurb »

throwawayqqq11 wrote: post #16
refurb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the primary reasons of how the rich get richer and how public services (our society) degrade is, that we stopped taxing them. Taxes as a percentage of GDP are pretty steady over time. We aren't really taxing less. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S

I think tieing tax income to gdp is as deceptive as hiding your income to dodge taxes. The ultra wealthy can shift their assets as they please, the poor cannot. Maybe thats the reason why the graph is steady.

I mean most of the really rich are rich from investments.

Unless you're arguing that the banks and large companies are breaking the law by avoiding their reporting requirements to the IRS (to what benefit?) that makes no sense.

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