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If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

streets.mn

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Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#581

Post by mm007emko »

ben_w wrote: post #218
mm007emko wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Often refuse to serve you" means that they sometimes do? I tried to go through a drive-thru on a bicycle in Czechia and they told me to fuck off.

Was drive-thru the only late night food option in that bit of Czechia? That felt like the pertinent part, not being able to get any in some places. (Here in Berlin I have to plan around Sunday trading rules in a way I didn't back in the UK, but we have Spätis, so there are options).

No, it was during a day. I had a trailer behind a bicycle with my then two year old son who wanted chips. So I tried McDonald's.

Since there was no secure way to lock the bicycle (well, locks don't really work either) I tried drive-through.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#582

Post by ClumsyPilot »

sershe wrote: post #559
doix wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those places are freaking deathtraps. It's basically what the article is talking about! Those cities are _extremely_ anti-pedestrian. They may not be car-centric, but they are definitely moped centric. There are usually no sidewalks, or the sidewalks are full of parked mopeds or you'll be walking along and the sidewalk will just end abruptly. You are usually forced to walk along the road. Nobody will stop when you're…

Well they don't have much car infrastructure either, and operating a car there is much less convenient than a moped or a bicycle, not to mention extremely expensive relative to income. Plus the car is not necessary by definition since most people don't have one. So it's not really massive spending on car infrastructure, or distances created by car-centric lifestyle that's driving the adoption. It really feels like mo…

> Well they don't have much car infrastructure either

They have hundreds of motorways -> roads exclusively for car use. They have zero cycle ways. Like this is not subjective, look at the amount of money spent on ‘active travel’ anywhere, it is never even 5% of road budget.

> Moscow

I’ve cycled in Russia. Drivers stick their hand out of the window to yank on the steering or push you. There is zero tolerance for cyclists.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#583

Post by bluGill »

pdonis wrote: post #276
fnimick wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the link you would realize that property taxes don't even cover 25% of the ongoing maintenance cost. The rest comes out of the general tax pool at everyone else's expense, regardless of whether we live there or not.

> If you read the link you would realize that property taxes don't even cover 25% of the ongoing maintenance cost. I don't see this anywhere in the article.

That general tax pool is funded by people who live in suburbs, so the argument is wrong.

Strongtowns is intersting, but they look at a few outliers and make the case those problems apply to all towns.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#584

Post by leokennis »

sershe wrote: post #396
tvaughan wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Same. I’ve lived in Los Ángeles and Amsterdam, and it is impossible to explain to my friends and family just how awful the quality of life is in LA precisely because of the difference in attitudes and priorities over cars. Perhaps some have “nicer” (aka bigger) houses in LA than they…

Subjectively worse, not objectively worse. I think driving is much more convenient and nice for most things I like to do. The only exceptions I can think of are if I were a kid in a car-centric area (strangely, the thinking in the US is usually reversed, kids supposedly need to be in the burbs), or if I was drunk. I don't often get drunk, so I'd prefer to drive for everything from minor groceries to outdoor activitie…

> I think driving is much more convenient and nice for most things I like to do

Sure…is that because driving is inherently more convenient than walking, or because your city was designed so driving was more convenient than walking?

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#585

Post by bluGill »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #65
bluGill wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in the US live in an urban area, where urban solutions work. Only a small minority live in a rural area, though many living in suburbs like to pretend they are in a rural area.

>> Most people in the US live in an urban area, where urban solutions work The word "urban" in the US means different things to different people and in different contexts. For the US census bureau, you can find their up-to-date list of US urban areas at https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/g... , and it includes areas such as the New York City metro area, at a population of 19,426,449, and Munds…

Those small towns don't add up to much population. Most Americans live in an urban area of more than 100,000 people.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#586

Post by mlrtime »

Kuinox wrote: post #432
xyzelement wrote: post #429

I didn't have a car between college and my late 30s. I thought I was a pro-walking chauvinist but turns out I was just a single guy living in NYC. Within a year of our first kid, I was living in the burbs with a large SUV. Anti car people tend to be single or at least childless and they fail to understand that the majority of Americans aren't like them. About 40 percent of households have kids under 18, ie 60-80% of…

That's because you live in a car centric place. In a well designed city, a car is optional. I recommend watching Not Just Bikes videos on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes/videos

I'm 100% with OP. Also lived in NYC for 10 years without a car. I had everything I needed within a 10 minute walk including my commute to work. Have you ever seen a family struggle to get two strollers down to a subway?

After having kids , a single family house and a car is 100% better.

After reading most of the replies in this thread I'm guessing it is mostly filled with younger people without kids... notice I'm saying mostly, not all.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#587

Post by msla »

neuronic wrote: post #542
msla wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how you post this and a bunch of cyclists come out, elbowing each other aside to be the first to act out their most obnoxious stereotypes. "Yeah, we bomb down the sidewalks at 30 and categorically refuse to yield to pedestrians while shouting 'Share the road!' at anyone using an engine, and you should be grateful we didn't get in an SUV and plow through a daycare center!"

What’s amazing is that you have formed an absurd hostile image of bicyclists in your head and actually post as if that was normal. When confronted, you immediately suspect a concerted action against you by a group of bicyclists. Sounds very paranoid to me.

No, I'm just sick of cyclists who think they can ride on the sidewalk.

You're the one imputing all this crap to others.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#588

Post by rceDia »

Local zoning in US dictates many sidewalk placements. For example, Stafford, VA literally has sidewalks to nowhere. There are strips of sidewalk in front of a business or development un-connected to anything-there is no walking on those sidewalks. They are more like lawn ornaments: fun to look at but serve no purpose.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#589

Post by hombre_fatal »

brailsafe wrote: post #398
fnimick wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a conversation recently with someone lamenting that we didn't have roads like LA here in Boston. Saying their ideal road was 3 lanes, plus a bike lane, plus a bus lane in each direction. Imagine being a pedestrian trying to cross that! I really don't understand someone who looks at that traffic disaster and wants to build the same thing here at home.

I think this is exactly what Seattle is building at it's already awful waterfront

Austin too.

https://twitter.com/kelseyhuse30/status/1684337210760241152

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#590

Post by mlrtime »

slifin wrote: post #32
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #23

This article kind of skips out on safety. Many of the urban areas that have the density for walking, often have issues of homelessness and open drug use that makes people feel unsafe walking, especially with children.

It must be easy to ignore a homeless population if you can just drive past them

So I have two immediate options, buy a car or fix SF or NYC's mental illness or drug problems, which should I chose to protect my family?
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