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If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

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Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#571

Post by slifin »

sershe wrote: post #489
aesclepius wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus it's objectively worse. NY/Chicago/London/Paris/Tokyo you can conceivably and easily nip out to a grocer's, bodega, cafe or pub within 10 minutes of where you are. LA? Outside of certain certain pockets like DTLA, KTown, WeHo or similar walking is tough and if your friend is across town you're SoL without a car.

But I don't want to! I literally just walked to the store and it was in absoute perfect conditions - we wanted to go for a walk anyway, the weather is perfect (sunny but not hot), the store is 10min walk from my house, the neighborhood is nice and not drive-thru so there is ~0 non-local traffic. The plan was we go for a walk, and pop by a store and get one item. But as usual it never ends up being that way, so we had…

Sounds like you need a walking trolley for groceries

It's like a bag with wheels you can drag, that was my immediate thought anyway

There's tons of micro mobility that could have also helped

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#572

Post by JackFr »

esoterica wrote: post #549
JackFr wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclists in NYC are positive menace. They don’t need to be but they choose go the wrong way down one way streets, routinely ignore all traffic signals, ride on busy sidewalks and eschew bike lanes to weave in and out of heavy traffic. Well under 50% wear helmets. As a pedestrian in NYC I feel far more endangered by bikes than I do by automobiles. There is room for cyclists, but there has got to be some compliance wit…

Your feelings are wrong. There were 2000 pedestrians killed by cars in NYC from 2018 to 2021 and only 12 killed by bicycles. https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-pedestrian...

1) I certainly don’t want to die. I also simply don’t want to get hit.

2) Bicycle/pedestrian are under reported.

3) I am specifically referring to my experience in Manhattan. In large portions of Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx I think my attitude would be different.

(Also thanks for the link - poking around the DOT site they have some great information. Surprised to see how many pedestrian fatalities involved alcohol — on the part of the pedestrian!)

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#573

Post by asm0dey »

degrews wrote: post #106

I moved from Spain to the US, and I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Here are some other examples of things that I think contribute to the hostile walking experience in the US: * Cars parked in short driveways often extend all the way across the sidewalk. Even if you can easily step off onto the road to walk around them…

Well, TBH in Europe you usually don't have an option to get food late at night :)

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#575

Post by Moldoteck »

lionkor wrote: post #568
Moldoteck wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point. Maintaining car infra is expensive, so owning a car should be expensive and discouraged. That's why there using a car to get to a destination usually is much slower compared to a bike. Cars are still allowed for the people that either really need them or don't need them but are willing to pay extra But I agree that Utrecht is a better city bc of less tourists and even more bike infra

Of course, and I admire that, but its therefore not a good example of a city where cars, pedestrians and bikes coexist (because its not meant to be one)

Why? All of them coexist and most efficient ones get preferential treatment, for example priority on intersections/semaphores, more direct/shorter paths for mass transit and bikes What's not that good is the train quality/frequency/price, for this Switzerland is much better (pricey but good quality and frequent), but NL is still ahead of many countries even in this regard

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#576

Post by spixy »

sershe wrote: post #489
aesclepius wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus it's objectively worse. NY/Chicago/London/Paris/Tokyo you can conceivably and easily nip out to a grocer's, bodega, cafe or pub within 10 minutes of where you are. LA? Outside of certain certain pockets like DTLA, KTown, WeHo or similar walking is tough and if your friend is across town you're SoL without a car.

But I don't want to! I literally just walked to the store and it was in absoute perfect conditions - we wanted to go for a walk anyway, the weather is perfect (sunny but not hot), the store is 10min walk from my house, the neighborhood is nice and not drive-thru so there is ~0 non-local traffic. The plan was we go for a walk, and pop by a store and get one item. But as usual it never ends up being that way, so we had…

Then go there with some backpack.

I have a store in same building than my flat (but other side), and it is the best. Dont need to have car, dont need to worry about DUI...

100F (38C) is here twice maybe per year? Cannot you survive 38C for a few minutes?

If it is 32F (0C). I just put warm clothes on? 32F is not very cold temperature anyway.

Raining = umbrella (but I go without it, 2 minutes of rain wont kill me).

How many times a year do you host a party? For me its just once a year (birthday), I just go to store multiple times.

But I understand that your store is 10 min walk which sucks. I guess your city is not dense enough.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#577

Post by spixy »

voisin wrote: post #9

If we want a shift to walking, we need cities to plant around 100x the number of trees they have. Ever walk through an old, mature neighbourhood? Usually there are tons of people on the sidewalks, and a primary reason is that there are mature trees providing plenty of shade. Then try walking in a new neighbourhood with barely any shade. It is awful.

Yes. Something like this https://twitter.com/Cobylefko/status/1682029080538136579

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#578

Post by ehnto »

sershe wrote: post #424
kaibee wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find I'd much rather drive to the mountains, or a lake, or at least a nice big park, and recreate there. This is not a sustainable solution to population level health needs, even if maybe in your particular situation you do actually get enough vacation days and free time on weekends to be able to do this (I also doubt this).

Well, a more sustainable solution is everyone exercising at home whenever they want in the way they want, or going for a run around the block. Going to the store by car + going for a run, is still faster and more convenient than walking to the store (per unit of exercise - e.g. driving to the store 10 times and running 2 miles vs walking 0.2 miles to the store).

A gym is a great example of how we tend to support parts of life communally when we can live more densely.

For me the competing requirements are space for gym equipment and space for a workshop. I could have space for both if I lived further out, but then all other aspects of life would get worse. I'd have to drive constantly, to work, to social outings, to fun weekend stuff, it'd be a drag.

As you are pointing out though, we all have our tradeoffs we make. My only counterpoint would be that most cities are doing a terrible job of offering options to people who do want the more dense, "less car" communities.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#579

Post by Aerbil313 »

vivalasvega wrote: post #386
Aerbil313 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the city people who think moving five feet every thirty seconds and bathing in an ocean of car horn noises is somehow compatible with human life. Some even manage to enjoy it. I did not believe anyone actually wanted, let alone enjoyed the misery of modernity until I experienced one such person firsthand. It blowed my mind, I was in shock for a straight day. The guy genuinely "liked" the new Transformers movie…

Respectfully, who made you the arbiter of taste? Are people not allowed to like movies and foods and environments that you don't? Isn't it great that the world has something for everyone?

You're right, my comment reads like I was stating merely my taste from your perspective and mine. My mistake. To clarify, I don't buy subjectivism and believe that there's an universal one moral truth independent of human minds. I believe this truth says humans ought not live in a technological world, for that they're not designed for it, and that one who have successfully (!) adapted to technological life as to not feel any distress and even enjoy it must be one with a malformed psyche, one far from his original nature and thus morally bad.

Indeed from your perspective this is still merely my "taste", my point is that this is truth independent of my existence from mine and apparently many agree.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#580

Post by Kuinox »

xyzelement wrote: post #504
Kuinox wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An appartement in Paris for a family is at least a millions dollar, you are telling me they can't afford a car? No, moving in car is simply inconvenient here. You can walk or take the public transit to get where you want, it's just faster. Lots of parisians have a car, often in a parking spot far from their home, and rarely uses it. Someone commuting to Paris with a car instead of public transit is seen as someone ma…

Again I don't understand your point. Obviously it's possible to live in a city without a car and with kids and some percentage of people will chose to do that for a variety of reasons. Nobody is disputing that. Both US and other counties have cities where you can live without a car and some people do that. If that's all you are claiming then sure I agree. My point is simply that the likelihood of someone wanting/need…

> Again I don't understand your point

I linked a YouTube channel. Watch one of his videos. He explain it very well.

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