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If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

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Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#521

Post by makapuf »

sershe wrote: post #502
LampDrewNear wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still drive perfectly well in walkable cities. And maybe it's just a TV trope, but do your paper bags lack handles? In Europe essentially all grocery bags have handles and are easy to carry. The amount of food you bought sounds easy to me to carry home, and I don't even lift.

It's a tradeoff - the argument is about car vs walking infrastructure, and while it's nice to have both I'd prefer to lose the latter if I had to make a choice. Driving in Amsterdam is... inconvenient. At least in central areas, I've never been far out. They have handles, it's still just inconvenient to carry and makes a nice walk into a chore, vs driving with much more groceries per trip.

Problem is, current level of car usage is absolutely unsustainable with current co2 emissions targets, even with electric cars if they use coal.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#522

Post by msla »

rz2k wrote: post #152
closeparen wrote: post #3

This lens is underutilized in the discourse, but people feel it acutely. Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” When you are using transportation infrastructure that’s designed with contempt for you, you know, and you don’t want to be there. See also: rail slow zones, buses that shimmy and rattle violently on imperfect pavement, how Muni trains close their doors and pull one foot out…

I have a pretty strong anti-cycling stance, because I watched my New York neighborhood that was a pedestrian paradise significantly degraded by bike lanes. The balance of walking, subways, busses, taxis and delivery trucks had worked pretty well. Bicyclists introduced the concept of failing to yield, then acting indignant and entitled.

It's amazing how you post this and a bunch of cyclists come out, elbowing each other aside to be the first to act out their most obnoxious stereotypes. "Yeah, we bomb down the sidewalks at 30 and categorically refuse to yield to pedestrians while shouting 'Share the road!' at anyone using an engine, and you should be grateful we didn't get in an SUV and plow through a daycare center!"

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#523

Post by foooorsyth »

sershe wrote: post #489
aesclepius wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus it's objectively worse. NY/Chicago/London/Paris/Tokyo you can conceivably and easily nip out to a grocer's, bodega, cafe or pub within 10 minutes of where you are. LA? Outside of certain certain pockets like DTLA, KTown, WeHo or similar walking is tough and if your friend is across town you're SoL without a car.

But I don't want to! I literally just walked to the store and it was in absoute perfect conditions - we wanted to go for a walk anyway, the weather is perfect (sunny but not hot), the store is 10min walk from my house, the neighborhood is nice and not drive-thru so there is ~0 non-local traffic. The plan was we go for a walk, and pop by a store and get one item. But as usual it never ends up being that way, so we had…

I agree with your general point about the romanticization of no-car life. I grew up without a car in a walkable city. It was nice but there are legitimate trade offs.

My mom used a wheelie cart to do our shopping growing up. As a kid I thought it was embarrassing but now I get it. Cargo bikes are another good option. Having to carry home groceries without some sort of cargo apparatus like that does suck, even in nice weather.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#524

Post by itsanaccount »

sershe wrote: post #489
aesclepius wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus it's objectively worse. NY/Chicago/London/Paris/Tokyo you can conceivably and easily nip out to a grocer's, bodega, cafe or pub within 10 minutes of where you are. LA? Outside of certain certain pockets like DTLA, KTown, WeHo or similar walking is tough and if your friend is across town you're SoL without a car.

But I don't want to! I literally just walked to the store and it was in absoute perfect conditions - we wanted to go for a walk anyway, the weather is perfect (sunny but not hot), the store is 10min walk from my house, the neighborhood is nice and not drive-thru so there is ~0 non-local traffic. The plan was we go for a walk, and pop by a store and get one item. But as usual it never ends up being that way, so we had…

[flagged]

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#525

Post by jstarfish »

maxbond wrote: post #513
sershe wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mountaineer too, it's just a chore to walk with groceries, esp. if the weather is bad and you have to do it every 3 days given how little one can carry. I think I mentioned the drinking aspect in the original comment. I could do all of these things by car, probably faster too... except drinking. So I guess it depends on how often one drinks :)

The paper bags they give you are terrible, they're barely fit to walk to the car with. They always fall apart on the walk home, and the ergonomics suck too. But with any reasonable bag I find it's not a big deal.

I'm of the impression paper bags are not meant to be carried. As long as I've been alive, they always break.

I suspect they're simply supposed to be a bundling device so you can stack them for loading in one of those foldable vertical bring-your-own-grocery-cart like old ladies in urban areas use. They certainly can't carry all that crap in-hand either, but this is the only way I've seen paper-bagged groceries make it more than a block without drama.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#526

Post by labster »

makapuf wrote: post #521
sershe wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tradeoff - the argument is about car vs walking infrastructure, and while it's nice to have both I'd prefer to lose the latter if I had to make a choice. Driving in Amsterdam is... inconvenient. At least in central areas, I've never been far out. They have handles, it's still just inconvenient to carry and makes a nice walk into a chore, vs driving with much more groceries per trip.

Problem is, current level of car usage is absolutely unsustainable with current co2 emissions targets, even with electric cars if they use coal.

Climatologist here, basically everything is unsustainable if you use coal power. If we’re lucky we can keep steel production and that’s about it.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#527

Post by escapedmoose »

sershe wrote: post #489
aesclepius wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus it's objectively worse. NY/Chicago/London/Paris/Tokyo you can conceivably and easily nip out to a grocer's, bodega, cafe or pub within 10 minutes of where you are. LA? Outside of certain certain pockets like DTLA, KTown, WeHo or similar walking is tough and if your friend is across town you're SoL without a car.

But I don't want to! I literally just walked to the store and it was in absoute perfect conditions - we wanted to go for a walk anyway, the weather is perfect (sunny but not hot), the store is 10min walk from my house, the neighborhood is nice and not drive-thru so there is ~0 non-local traffic. The plan was we go for a walk, and pop by a store and get one item. But as usual it never ends up being that way, so we had…

Walking to the store is great when it’s a habit to do so every day, so you’re just picking up some fresh meat and produce for whatever dinner you’re making that night. It’s a very pleasant (and healthy) lifestyle. For trips where you need to make larger and heavier purchases, it’s also very enjoyable to bike.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#528

Post by jstarfish »

sndknd wrote: post #379
dymk wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most states (all?) it's illegal to have a tinted front window, yet people still have them, because it's not enforced. IMO cops should be citing people left and right for tinted windows and tinted license plate covers. You'd think they'd already be taking advantage of such an easy revenue source.

Exactly this. I’m not a fan of cops, but ENFORCE THE LAWS. If the tint is illegal, cite the person and force them to remove it right there. If we aren’t going to enforce the law, remove it from the books.

They do though. It's one of those things you'll get cited for if you're already being cited for something else, or they need a reason to pull you over to begin with (seatbelt law). See how many people complain about this on tuner forums, especially in hot/sunny places like Arizona and California.

Sometimes they'll let you tear off the tint and avoid the citation.

Technically they should be ticketing everyone that doesn't use turn signals either but there are only so many cops, so many hours in the day, and more-pressing issues to deal with (accident reports, domestic disputes, etc.).

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#529

Post by escapedmoose »

chrismcb wrote: post #461
grecy wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time a politician anywhere in the world suggests adding more freeways or more lanes to freeways, I think they should be forced to live in LA for a year and do a ~1 hour commute each way in traffic. They need to see first hand what happens when you just add more freeways and more lanes. It's not good.

I lived in a place for most of my life that refused to build freeways "because they didn't want to become like LA" meanwhile more people moved there, traffic got worse. Going "across town" about 15 miles was a burden. You hated to do it. I then moved to a town that had a few freeways and 15 miles away was considered close. The town I grew up in, finally built some cross town roads, and travel time improved. I think y…

I grew up in a similar place, which had too few freeways around it and navigating anywhere was a major headache. Now I live in a highly walkable town near a few freeways, and it’s much nicer; I can avoid driving altogether and walk/bike around town, or I can easily get to the nearby city by car. There’s a happy medium to be found.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#530

Post by 0xcafefood »

Aeolun wrote: post #449
reducesuffering wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps, then, those officers could get safer jobs doing something else, if they are unable to perform their duties. Do you have this same energy for every hazardous occupation? Like when workers protest dangerous working conditions? Do you also advocate they "could get safer jobs?"

Well, “make conditions safer” has historically not gone down well in the states.

There are many issues facing the US, but consistently unsafe working conditions doesn't seem to me to be one of them. Can you explain why you think there's widespread opposition to workplace safety in the US?
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