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IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

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Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#371

Post by lucideer »

j45 wrote: post #365
lucideer wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just a modern irc interpretation This is the point isn't it. If IRC were fit for purpose, we wouldn't need "modern interpretations".

Is it? Could irc not modernize? Matrix seems more than executing. What if an interpretation veers wildly of course? Slack is fine for many things but if I were to look during the pandemic, Teams our executed to meet people where and how they worked. Slack is also often seen with and without context. Most people have someone pay for their slack for them to keep that precious searchable history. Non profit or free uses…

> Could irc not modernize?

This is the point and the problem. It could but it hasn't. People have been waiting for it to modernize for 20 or 30 years. It took almost 30 years to add a feature people were demanding 20 years ago.

Slack etc. are poor replacements, it's true. No-one is denying that. But for all their flaws it's not hard for them to be better in aggregate when IRC is as stagnant as it is. If IRC refuses to modernise (which it has, generally) these replacements will come, whether they're good or not. I'd really like if we had something good, however we get there. But waiting for IRC to get there has not been fruitful.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#372

Post by stjohnswarts »

Zetice wrote: post #180
pmoriarty wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities. Discord's logging is shitty because: 1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever. 2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Disco…

Literally all of your concerns are 100% solved by adding a log bot to the channels you care about, both on IRC and Discord. I’m beyond sick of the helplessness performative shtick around Discord. This is an ancient problem with obvious solutions. Do better.

not when the channel shuts down, unless discord introduces the ability to do a complete download of all the channel's old discussions

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#373

Post by stjohnswarts »

password4321 wrote: post #126
pmoriarty wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities. Discord's logging is shitty because: 1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever. 2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Disco…

In case anyone is not aware, you can download Discord logs. https://github.com/Tyrrrz/DiscordChatExporter But beware -- it can result in account termination! https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002192352-A...

Isn't this like saying you can swallow hydrofluoric acid... once?

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#374

Post by Mouthfeel »

pmoriarty wrote: post #46
ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities. Discord's logging is shitty because: 1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever. 2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Disco…

[dead]

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#375

Post by Zetice »

eropple wrote: post #369
Zetice wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but this passive voice over a completely open system is intolerable. Fix it yourself. It annoys me.

Let's put it as simply as possible, because there's the genuine possibility that you don't understand, rather than are just being an acrimonious troll. You wouldn't be Linux-on-the-desktopping as hard as you are if you didn't want people to use it. As such, if you, as an advocate of a thing, want other people to use it when the alternative is "continue using other things", then the least effective response is "fix it…

If you have everything you need, why did you complain?

And insults do you no good here. Would any of the hateful words you wrote above mean anything at all to you if I wrote them?

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#376

Post by boredtofears »

Zetice wrote: post #361
boredtofears wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to take responsibility for fixing something just because you criticized it. Fixating on the term used is a tad disingenuous. I think most people reading hacker news understands that the IRC ecosystem is being referenced here - not the protocol itself. IRC has been around 30+ years and it still doesn't have any great clients. If you wanted to build a featureful chat client IRC wouldn't even be a good ch…

Sorry but this passive voice over a completely open system is intolerable. Fix it yourself. It annoys me.

> Passive voice over a completely open system

??

What does that even mean?

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#377

Post by boredtofears »

Zetice wrote: post #375
eropple wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put it as simply as possible, because there's the genuine possibility that you don't understand, rather than are just being an acrimonious troll. You wouldn't be Linux-on-the-desktopping as hard as you are if you didn't want people to use it. As such, if you, as an advocate of a thing, want other people to use it when the alternative is "continue using other things", then the least effective response is "fix it…

If you have everything you need, why did you complain? And insults do you no good here. Would any of the hateful words you wrote above mean anything at all to you if I wrote them?

> If you have everything you need, why did you complain?

Because it’s a forum for discussing technology? Why critique anything with that logic. You must be trolling.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#378

Post by lucideer »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #360
lucideer wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on your definition of purpose. If the purpose is to be niche tech, then yeah, sure, you're right.

in exactly the same way as how the post I responded to depends on your definition of purpose, a point it seems I illustrated successfully as for your snide, obviously wrong comment at the end, it's not worth a substantial response

Sorry if it comes across as snide but I really do wish it were different, I do wish IRC were less niche. But when all of its defenders start their HN comments with "I", it's difficult to see IRC supporters ever looking beyond the needs of the niche they exist in as individuals.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#379

Post by Arathorn »

sph wrote: post #356
jacooper wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you deal with the terrible element client? I use matrix, but I don't bridge my accounts because I can't trust element.

Same. Element is the single reason I dislike Matrix with a passion, and any other client is either another Electron monstrosity, or a crappy native app that's little more than a proof of concept. Element is so bloated and slow, it's impossible not to feel Matrix is bloated and slow as well.

If you’re on macOS on Apple Silicon, try the Element X iOS app. Am hoping that we will end up with a proper native macOS port in the end, which should stop the Electron complaints dead.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#380

Post by Arathorn »

progval wrote: post #346
Arathorn wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix is very much alive and well; we just hit 100M total addressable users on the network :)

How do you count users? I couldn't find a way to get stats from other people's homeservers when I looked into it

the optional phonehome stats in synapse. this is total mxids reported (104M or something).
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