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If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

streets.mn

411–420 of 713 posts

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#411
I don't care that much about the "safety" as described in TFA: there's a big mall across the street of where I live now, so I walk there. The sidewalk is a bit hectic: I don't care. What I do care though is that it is safe: as in, it's not an hellhole of a shit city where the risk of being mugged is high (well I did martial arts in the past so at least they'd get some for their money).

You aren't getting people to walk or bicycle if your city is a shithole where thieves are roaming free.

Fix insecurity in public transports. Fix pee/urine odors in the subways. Then I'll consider using your public transport (which I do now use, here, in Luxembourg, because it's both pristine and feels mostly safe: except around the train station but, well, nothing can be perfect I guess).

But if you city is insecure and your subway stations stink and buses feels like a place where little gangs makes the law, then, fuck it, I'm using my car.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#412
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Same. I’ve lived in Los Ángeles and Amsterdam, and it is impossible to explain to my friends and family just how awful the quality of life is in LA precisely because of the difference in attitudes and priorities over cars. Perhaps some have “nicer” (aka bigger) houses in LA than they…

> Los Ángeles Why the accent? Is it not the one in California?

That's the spanish spelling of the city's name.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#413

I moved from Spain to the US, and I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Here are some other examples of things that I think contribute to the hostile walking experience in the US: * Cars parked in short driveways often extend all the way across the sidewalk. Even if you can easily step off onto the road to walk around them…

really? Tokyo is very oriented towards pedestrian traffic, considering shinkansen and most rail service - yet satellite suburban sites, like Saitama, etc have tiny residential rows that literally don't fit both a car and a pedestrian. And that's where most people live. Yet Japan is highly pedestrian. Now, South America. Most if not all urban centers of 1M are extremely well covered by bus networks. And they have to,…

re: Japan, I think it has to do with having higher density, meaning many things are within shorter walking distances.

I also think Japan is generally a lot more pleasant to walk in than the US

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#414
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Same. I’ve lived in Los Ángeles and Amsterdam, and it is impossible to explain to my friends and family just how awful the quality of life is in LA precisely because of the difference in attitudes and priorities over cars. Perhaps some have “nicer” (aka bigger) houses in LA than they…

> Los Ángeles Why the accent? Is it not the one in California?

Almost certainly autocorrect. Bilingual devices sometimes forget (or mistake) the language you’re typing in. I’m typing this on a Spanish keyboard, for example.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#415
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Same. I’ve lived in Los Ángeles and Amsterdam, and it is impossible to explain to my friends and family just how awful the quality of life is in LA precisely because of the difference in attitudes and priorities over cars. Perhaps some have “nicer” (aka bigger) houses in LA than they…

> Los Ángeles Why the accent? Is it not the one in California?

Reminds me of the runin I had with someone from San Rafael north of SF. They corrected me when I pronounced it as the spanish name it is. Apparently it's officially pronounced ra-fell, and they're adamant about it.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#416
post #77
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I’ve lived there for years, and although it’s not perfect, I think it’s very easy to get around both walking and cycling.

Maastricht, to give one example, is considerably nicer for walking and cycling. Remember GP isn't saying it's absolutely bad for walking and cycling, just that Amsterdam isn't great by NL standards. And it's not.

I imagine more people who've traveled, and are not from the Netherlands, are likely to have been to Amsterdam than to Maastricht, meaning it's easier to index on how Amsterdam functions than Maastricht for discussion.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a conversation recently with someone lamenting that we didn't have roads like LA here in Boston. Saying their ideal road was 3 lanes, plus a bike lane, plus a bus lane in each direction. Imagine being a pedestrian trying to cross that! I really don't understand someone who looks at that traffic disaster and wants to build the same thing here at home.

I feel like the more modes of transportation you mix together the worse the cognitive load on people. And it get rapidly worse the higher the density. Inside of a mall where there are only pedestrians is very safe. Freeways are fairly safe. Protected bike lanes are safe. Light rail is safe. Mix all of those on a strode, rail, buses, trucks, cars, bicycles, pedestrians, not safe.

I'd consider Amsterdam, where many kinds of transportation are carefully weaved together

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Schiphol+Amsterdam+Airport...

In that area you will find highways, surface streets, bike paths, pedestrian walkways, trams, commuter trains and other kinds of transportation in a way that comes across as elegant, at least to me.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#418
post #404

This lens is underutilized in the discourse, but people feel it acutely. Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” When you are using transportation infrastructure that’s designed with contempt for you, you know, and you don’t want to be there. See also: rail slow zones, buses that shimmy and rattle violently on imperfect pavement, how Muni trains close their doors and pull one foot out…

The cause and effect might be reversed. 1) Most people prefer to drive... look at any country that is getting richer - people want to buy cars. 2) It is only when people cannot afford to drive or driving is too inconvenient (traffic, or narrow streets/lack of parking in Europe, or outright restrictions ), they will use alternative modes of transportation. 3) The more people are thus inconvenienced, the more public su…

> It's not like car ownership and traffic is that low in Europe, given how admittedly convenient it is to not have one

Indeed. Germany, France, Italy, Spain, etc. are all among the countries with the highest vehicles per capita in the world (it's not as much as in the US, but then in the US people can drive starting at 16 years old, so it messes the stats quite a bit).

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#419
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objectively we are still animals that need at least some movement. The environment described by the parent is hostile to our most basic needs.

I find I'd much rather drive to the mountains, or a lake, or at least a nice big park, and recreate there. Walking to a store in Amsterdam or Munich or Vancouver or Moscow was neither much fun nor a lot of exercise.

> I find I'd much rather drive to the mountains, or a lake, or at least a nice big park, and recreate there.

This is not a sustainable solution to population level health needs, even if maybe in your particular situation you do actually get enough vacation days and free time on weekends to be able to do this (I also doubt this).

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#420
It was over 100 degrees where I was in the Houston area. I don’t want to walk anywhere. Nicer sidewalks won’t change profuse sweating. All of the bike and walk crowd seems to have never been to Houston in the summer. It’s 80 degrees in Cupertino right now and 96 degrees in Houston as I type this. That’s a huge difference in what is comfortably walkable.

Nobody likes walking in 100 degree heat. When I lived in Europe, certainly walkable towns were awesome. Although, I do remember being on subways in Paris that didn’t have air conditioning in July and it was straight up miserable to be packed into a sardine can surrounded by sweaty aromatic people, then exiting the station to be greeted by a blast furnace on the surface and then walking multiple blocks to the destination.

Taking a taxi was air conditioned comfort and a welcome luxury when I could afford it. I am not knocking Paris, but making the point that the ideology of eliminating private transport in favor of being out in the elements is a regression, not an improvement.

There should be balance when it comes to transport options. Streets can be improved, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of cars entirely. Make it great for all modes of transport. A great example is when Houston ripped up driving lanes to add bike lanes — other than hobby cyclists, those lanes are rarely used unless it’s on one of the six days a year that the weather is nice enough. The bike lanes made traffic worse while benefiting just a few die-hards that cycle as some sort of social protest rather than as a legitimate means of navigating this huge city.

Why not make motorcycle and motor scooter lanes instead of bike lanes? Why do people insist on trying to turn Houston into Amsterdam? Houston isn’t Amsterdam. Greater Houston is 10,000 square miles with 7.5 million people. Greater Amsterdam is 1000 square miles with 2.5 million people.

Trying to make places with very hot weather “walkable” is about as logical as building a ski resort in Austin.

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