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If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

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Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#361

Post by eredengrin »

elric wrote: post #251
thex10 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

excuse me, what? No, if I need to walk through late at night, I want to be safe. You have some options: - put the bedrooms away from the street - invest in some curtains - live somewhere more pastoral???

The light won't make you safer. It might make you feel safer, which is a different thing entirely.

Not sure I buy that. [0] has some data to suggest that light decreases crime, and there's also common sense. If you can see a potentially sketchy situation a block down, it gives you the chance to take a little detour and perhaps avoid it entirely. The light also allows more witnesses, more people to step in if needed, more people to call cops if needed, and more chance for cameras to be effective.

[0] https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/5/9/how-something-a...

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#362

Post by Kye »

dymk wrote: post #327
ytdytvhxgydvhh wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tinted windows are such a pet peeve of mine. I get it in the tropics but in most of America the individual benefits of dark tint seem like they’d be outweighed by the collective good of better visibility through cars, enabling eye contact with drivers, etc. The SUV craze is really to blame - in general many US states don’t allow dark tint on traditional cars but do on SUVs. And since rear windows on vans and light tr…

In most states (all?) it's illegal to have a tinted front window, yet people still have them, because it's not enforced. IMO cops should be citing people left and right for tinted windows and tinted license plate covers. You'd think they'd already be taking advantage of such an easy revenue source.

I doubt cops like pulling people they can't see over. They could be shot dead and never see the gun.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#363

Post by closeparen »

whimsicalism wrote: post #151
closeparen wrote: post #3

This lens is underutilized in the discourse, but people feel it acutely. Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” When you are using transportation infrastructure that’s designed with contempt for you, you know, and you don’t want to be there. See also: rail slow zones, buses that shimmy and rattle violently on imperfect pavement, how Muni trains close their doors and pull one foot out…

> Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” When you are using transportation infrastructure that’s designed with contempt for you, you know, and you don’t want to be there. I grew up in close contact with a large urban poor population and I think the view of bikes was the exact opposite of this. Biking in the city is considered the purview of affluent white people

I've had multiple professional-managerial friends tell me they personally won't bike because that's something they left behind in their childhood or broke-student days. It's beneath them now. But you're right, people also complain about bike infrastructure projects taking space from working-class drivers to benefit white yuppies.

We see this often with urbanist topics. New multifamily construction is gentrification and colonization if you lean left, full of crime and a threat to our schools if you lean right. The only widespread agreement is that it represents the Other. The stranglehold of postwar suburban car culture on the American psyche is self-reinforcing at this point.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#364

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

mm007emko wrote: post #188
degrews wrote: post #106

I moved from Spain to the US, and I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Here are some other examples of things that I think contribute to the hostile walking experience in the US: * Cars parked in short driveways often extend all the way across the sidewalk. Even if you can easily step off onto the road to walk around them…

"Often refuse to serve you" means that they sometimes do? I tried to go through a drive-thru on a bicycle in Czechia and they told me to fuck off.

I've had some luck asking a stranger in a car to trip the sensor and then back up so I can order and walk though. Once your order is in its more work to say "no" than it is to say "yes but don't do it again"

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#365

Post by fnimick »

pdonis wrote: post #354
fnimick wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for price, because a lot of people want to live in dense areas. Why exactly do you think you should have a say over how other people live? That's what you claim to oppose, but your support of zoning in order to prevent other people from building density on their own property is exactly that.

> Except for price, because a lot of people want to live in dense areas. And the way to fix that is for urban areas to allow for more construction of living space. Which, historically, urban areas are very bad at doing, for example by restricting the maximum height of buildings. But how is that the suburbs' fault? > Why exactly do you think you should have a say over how other people live? I have said no such thing.…

You have explicitly said other people in your suburb should not be able to build dense housing on their property. Why?

And if there are many people who want urban areas and not enough housing to accommodate, would you support expanding them, or is this an attack on your preferences?

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#366

Post by inferiorhuman »

degrews wrote: post #106

I moved from Spain to the US, and I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Here are some other examples of things that I think contribute to the hostile walking experience in the US: * Cars parked in short driveways often extend all the way across the sidewalk. Even if you can easily step off onto the road to walk around them…

  just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here
I ended up talking to some woman yesterday who mentioned she loved to come back to Oakland because of how walkable it is compared where she is now in the central valley. I was amused at the whole exchange because while Oakland and San Francisco do a decent job, they're by no means great.

  Cars parked in short driveways often extend all the way across the sidewalk.
  Even if you can easily step off onto the road to walk around them (not all
  pedestrians can), it just feels like a slap in the face to have to do that.
One of the big things I noticed when comparing the pedestrian experience in Manhattan (and to a lesser extent the outer boroughs) to San Francisco is that New York lacks the curb cuts that encourage this kind of behavior. You spend a lot less time walking around parked cars or having to keep an eye out for someone who's in a hurry to exit "their" driveway.

In San Francisco, at least, there's a big tug of war about where your driveway ends and the curb begins. Suffice to say blocking the curb is one of those things that's almost never enforced.

Also this:

https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/155z0eo/frien...

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#367

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

closeparen wrote: post #3

This lens is underutilized in the discourse, but people feel it acutely. Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” When you are using transportation infrastructure that’s designed with contempt for you, you know, and you don’t want to be there. See also: rail slow zones, buses that shimmy and rattle violently on imperfect pavement, how Muni trains close their doors and pull one foot out…

> Short of tickets to Amsterdam for everyone, I don’t know how to fix it.

I just got back to the US from Amsterdam. I'll never look at these awful streets the same again.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#368

Post by vivalasvega »

Kye wrote: post #362
dymk wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most states (all?) it's illegal to have a tinted front window, yet people still have them, because it's not enforced. IMO cops should be citing people left and right for tinted windows and tinted license plate covers. You'd think they'd already be taking advantage of such an easy revenue source.

I doubt cops like pulling people they can't see over. They could be shot dead and never see the gun.

Perhaps, then, those officers could get safer jobs doing something else, if they are unable to perform their duties. Or perhaps it could be harder to drive around freely with and conceal a deadly weapon. We have a lot of options other than "just let people break the law, I guess".

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#370

Post by mint2 »

akira2501 wrote: post #93

"People should walk!" Pictures of miles long suburban corridors with no services or business along them. Maybe.. people don't walk there.. because there's no _reason_ to be walking there. If you want people to walk, give them a reason other than "I don't like cars."

You just cited a chief complaint that people against a car dominated culture have about car culture as if they never thought of it, never thought of one of their own major arguments?
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