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If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

streets.mn

241–250 of 713 posts

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#241

This lens is underutilized in the discourse, but people feel it acutely. Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” When you are using transportation infrastructure that’s designed with contempt for you, you know, and you don’t want to be there. See also: rail slow zones, buses that shimmy and rattle violently on imperfect pavement, how Muni trains close their doors and pull one foot out…

> how Muni trains close their doors and pull one foot out of the station just to wait at a red light

There are safety and scheduling reasons for this. They are not merely trying to snub riders. For example, the light rail trains here have a standard for how long they open their doors at each station. It's something like 14 seconds. A vehicle with open doors will also allow passengers to disembark; it's a two-way passage. So should they sit in the station with closed doors, or push off a few yards down to the intersection? Now, other motorists see a train stopped at a station and they think one thing. They see a train stopped and waiting for a red light and they know that it will proceed through on green. It seems weird to imagine a train that lingers at the station as if it's boarding but it's not, it's really waiting for the light to change, and then it will pounce on the opportunity. That's less than predictable behavior, as far as other motorists are concerned.

Our transit authority reminds riders to arrive at the stop 5 minutes early. We're also reminded that if we miss this one, another one is on the way. Passengers need not inherit that toxic road rage.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#242
post #226
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what would be a good bus system? I've only ever lived in the US and can honestly say I've never seen one.

I use the busses in Boston all the time, and have been for over 20 years. Way back when it was a pain but ever since bus tracking apps showed up on the scene about 15 years ago it's been a smooth experience.

I live in Boston and would still use the T buses as an example of bus service as an afterthought. The buses are loud, uncomfortable, bus stops frequently have no shelter and are on busy roads with no buffer from 2-3 lanes of traffic, and there are almost no dedicated bus lanes so the bus gets stuck in the same traffic as all the cars.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a pedestrian in NYC I feel far more endangered by bikes than I do by automobiles. This is why legislating by "feelings" is a bad idea. Automobiles are a far larger and more lethal risk.

And that risk is mitigated by traffic rules, separation of pedestrian v. vehicular traffic, etc. That goes out the window when you have a category of vehicles that routinely ignores those mitigations.

Even with those mitigations, they're still more deadly.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#244

This lens is underutilized in the discourse, but people feel it acutely. Even a lot of the anti-cycling stance comes down to, “What am I, poor?” When you are using transportation infrastructure that’s designed with contempt for you, you know, and you don’t want to be there. See also: rail slow zones, buses that shimmy and rattle violently on imperfect pavement, how Muni trains close their doors and pull one foot out…

"Muni trains close their doors and pull one foot out of the station just to wait at a red light" What is the reason for this? I see it all the time in metro areas, and it always blows my mind that traffic lights aren't synced with the tram schedules.

I answered upthread.

Sometimes I suspect that there is signaling going on that helps the traffic signals to favor the light rail train here. Then, sometimes, I suspect that there is not.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grocery store example is very helpful to illustrate how its not just the quality, safety, and practicality (e.g. time) of the walk that leads to most Americans driving- there is also the fact that the whole process and experience is predicated on the expectation that you will have a personal car. Specifically: In the parts of W. Europe I have visited I observed mostly small grocery stores (esp in towns and cities…

> People may stop on thei walk home to get dinner items each night! I'm glad that people who want that have that option, but that sounds incredibly unpleasant to me. I'd much rather minimize the total amount of time spent shopping.

we have option to go to huge market and stock for a week, but that's unpleasant, biting long and cumbersome.

stopping by and for small shopping while walking with dog and or biking from gym to buy few fresh things for this tonight is hardly a unpleasant chore... so it's a matter of perspective

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's about the equivalent of calling someone 'asiatic', a term used for animal species lmao. of course you probably don't give a shit, and neither do we really care about calling you names either.

Asiatic just means "from asia". It's used for all kinds of things Asian, including animal, plants, artifacts, geography, climate, and peoples. It's gone out of favor in the US (because people like to change every term with newer versions) but it's still a word just meaning "being from asia".

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Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#247

I moved from Spain to the US, and I often find myself trying to explain to people back home just how miserable and even humiliating the pedestrian experience is here. Here are some other examples of things that I think contribute to the hostile walking experience in the US: * Cars parked in short driveways often extend all the way across the sidewalk. Even if you can easily step off onto the road to walk around them…

The first one doesn't seem unique to the US. I just spent the last 2 months i Europe and on many side streets there is no place to safely stop a car which means pulling into the sidewalk is the only option. So I frequently had to step into the street to walk around a stopped delivery van or similar.

You're probably not supposed to stop a car in those places, and when you do, you're supposed to stop on the road, never on the sidewalk. Steep fines for that in Belgium at least, though the odds of getting caught are slim.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about two separate things. You are thinking of urban cycling where elderly and children commonly move about. I am talking about US rural roads, where a guaranteed paved shoulder and some lane marking now offers a respite from what bicycle tourers have historically considered a downside of cycling in the USA: sharing a lane with rural drivers. As I said, even in most of the EU one can't expect completel…

Even for rural areas, it should be separated paths. The US actually has some of those (way more than it has protected bike lanes, anyway). Fair though, a painted bike lane is probably better than nothing. > even in most of the EU Why are you saying this like the EU is some kind of exemplar? Most of the EU sucks for biking. It's better on average than the US, but most countries there aren't like the Netherlands, which…

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Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people can’t live in the places you’re describing so they’re going out of the public transit coverage

You absolutely don't know what you're talking about. There are poor people living in urban Boston and NYC and every city on the eastern seaboard.

The poor people living in Boston live in Roxbury and Dorchester. Coincidentally, these are the areas with by far the worst car dependency and worst public transit in the city.

Re: If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one time I had visited and hadto travel longer distance in the US I took a greyhound and boy, it was a interesting experience. Back home, going by bus was the norm but in the US it's... Really different.

greyhound literally is for poor people.

Surprisingly, more people are opting for Greyhound because of the horrors of flying since COVID-19.

Greyhound is also, in my mind, significantly different than regional public transit. I consider it more like an airline for poor people. Public transit, definitely there are poor people using it, and there are also commuters, especially on the Express lines, which have a premium fare and operate exclusively during office-commute hours. (R.I.P.)

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