Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Individuals running Minecraft and Mastodon servers for their friends needn't worry. Because they're too insignificant to matter, or because they won't be covered by the law? It sounds like the former, but you seem to imply the latter.
It's a bit of both. The law states that Ofcom has to ask you for your risk assessments, and they can't ask you for those if they don't know you exist.
Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
51–60 of 110 posts
Re: Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
#52Why isn't VPN to an out of country relay a solution? At any rate situations like these are what partially motivated me to write something like this: https://github.com/prettydiff/share-file-systems/blob/master...
Re: Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Individuals running Minecraft and Mastodon servers for their friends needn't worry. Because they're too insignificant to matter, or because they won't be covered by the law? It sounds like the former, but you seem to imply the latter.
It's a bit of both. The law states that Ofcom has to ask you for your risk assessments, and they can't ask you for those if they don't know you exist.
Re: Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Individuals running Minecraft and Mastodon servers for their friends needn't worry. Because they're too insignificant to matter, or because they won't be covered by the law? It sounds like the former, but you seem to imply the latter.
It's a bit of both. The law states that Ofcom has to ask you for your risk assessments, and they can't ask you for those if they don't know you exist.
Maybe it is me, who has already lived under a very similar set of laws and know that corporations are always the least hit by such laws. These are instruments that infringe on basic individual rights such as right to privacy. These instruments create systemic significant incentives to corruption, totalitarianism, (corporate and international) espionage, and so on.
Rights groups, activists, whistle-blowers, prosecuted or rather marginalised minorities, and other legitimate groups and individuals are going to be impacted by this.
Underplaying this is incredibly naïve and downright dangerous.
Re: Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
#55While I'm not a supporter of the Online Safety Bill, I do find that the opprobrium that it has inspired is consistently hyperbolic. The Online Safety Bill bans nothing . What it does do is create a regulatory framework for the Office for Communications (aka Ofcom, HM Government's regulator for the communications industry) to operate and enforce. The regulatory framework is based around risk assessments, and sets out…
It provides a legal mechanism for authorities to require that individuals disclose encryption keys for encrypted data that was legally obtained or intercepted (i.e. with a warrant) by those authorities, and there are penalties (jail time) for refusing to do so.
The worry at the time was that random data is indistinguishable from encrypted content, so there might be times when people are jailed when they don’t even have the keys because there’s no encrypted data - just random bytes! Or, what happens if you lose the keys?
The reality is that there’s a court system that ‘regulates’ all this. No-one is going to be jailed unless the courts find that they are not providing keys they really do have. Of course, in a conspiracy where the authorities and the courts are all colluding, they could jail people pretending that they knew they had the keys - but there are far easier ways for the authorities to do this than some elaborate scheme with fake encrypted data.
At the time I was fully convinced that it was a step down a slippery slope to authoritarianism. Really, it was just bringing the ‘virtual’ world into line with the physical one.
[I suspect there are a few here who were also around at the time and still believe it’s all a nefarious governmental plot - I’d ask them to show where, in the 23 years since it passed, harm - or suspicion of harm - has happened].
Now, maybe this is different. I certainly don’t want end to end encryption to be banned. But there’s a bit of a ‘cried wolf’ happening in my brain.
Re: Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Individuals running Minecraft and Mastodon servers for their friends needn't worry. Because they're too insignificant to matter, or because they won't be covered by the law? It sounds like the former, but you seem to imply the latter.
It's a bit of both. The law states that Ofcom has to ask you for your risk assessments, and they can't ask you for those if they don't know you exist.
Good lord! That's the same logic one may employ as a criminal, say.. an inside trader!
Well of course you won't get nabbed, if they don't know!
So as soon as you do anything interesting, protest, stand up for a right, displease a cop, upset the wrong neighbour, you'll be noticed, eh?
What a great law!
Congrats, you made my neighbours wonder why I'm yelling at myself(seemingly) again.
"Poor bbarnett, yelling in his empty house again, wonder when they'll take him away Marge?"
Re: Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it would be legal either since VPNs require encryption, too. Maybe some kind of proxy?
It's important to distinguish this from the encryption provisions of the bill. This part of the bill is distinct and means that social sites will need to verify ages of users and fill in lots of forms while they're at it.
Re: Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I support some more measured analysis to counter the hyperbole, you're making some strong assertions about what this bill will and won't mean, and I don't think you can have any more certainty about these than those people who are assuming a far worse outcome. Context matters, and given the context of where we are as a country at the moment, how trustworthy our current government has (not) turned out to be, and…
Perhaps I am being naive, and I will confess that I'm not entirely sure that the future will be as I predicted (but I'm not going to edit my initial comment, out of respect for those disagreeing with me). But I will think this quote from one of the bill's most dogged critics is illustrative[0]: > ... this Bill, whatever DCMS and its ministers may claim, is not a “fixing” Bill, one which has been designed to be constr…
Ok we definitely share common ground on this point then :)
I think it's worth remembering the equal amounts of - what could have been described as - "hyperbole" by remainers about what Brexit would really mean for the country, leading up to that vote. Much of the concern expressed was dismissed or downplayed, and though I voted to remain, I too actually thought the case against Brexit may have been made too strongly at the time. Well I was wrong about that - and many leave voters would also agree now that a lot of those forewarnings turned out to be correct, and in some cases, worse than predicted.
Brexit has had the negative impact on the UK that it has, due to two things. One of those is debatable; whether it was actually a bad idea from the beginning - (I personally think it was) and the second reason is not debatable at all: its very poor implementation by the Government.
The Online Safety Bill also may turn out to be a terrible decision for one or both of these same reasons: a) it was a poor concept b) it was implemented badly by the government. We only need one of those to be true for things to go badly. I worry that both will turn out to be true.
Re: Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Has anyone designed a modem to work over VOIP? It would have to cope with audio compression, jitter, dropouts, and so on. On the other hand, it could assume much less noise than an analogue phone line.
Sure, it could be made to work, and it might even be able to keep up with your reading speed. VoIP codecs are heavily optimized for human voice and have just a few kilobits of bandwidth. The analog phone network, before it went entirely digital, had a much higher bandwidth which is why modems were able to reach 56kbps. Phone calls in the 1980s were often crystal clear, almost on par with a broadcast radio station. Ce…
Re: Ask HN: Online activities to be made impossible by the UK Online Safety Bill
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Individuals running Minecraft and Mastodon servers for their friends needn't worry. Because they're too insignificant to matter, or because they won't be covered by the law? It sounds like the former, but you seem to imply the latter.
It's a bit of both. The law states that Ofcom has to ask you for your risk assessments, and they can't ask you for those if they don't know you exist.