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Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

southseattleemerald.com

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Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#221

Post by achates »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #174

Man, whenever all this train talk comes up, I get this impression that Americans really know their shit when it comes to trains. All these plans and documentations, speeds, infrastructure details, hundreds of comments, expertise - you’d think it’s all the other way around. I live in Poland, and all I know is that it all just works here (more or less).

Trains aren't a good fit for the US outside the northeast corridor. We have a fantastic interstate highway system for medium distances and for longer trips flying is cheaper and faster.

Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#222

Post by doom2 »

_ah wrote: post #157

This is dumb. In a high-density environment (hey there Japan!) HSR makes tons of sense. In a much lower-density area, moving people isn't the biggest problem, it's moving stuff . Next time you take a long-distance flight in the USA, look out the window and ponder how dang big AND EMPTY the country is. People can be transported quickly by air, but for cargo you want energy efficiency per kg (not speed). For most of th…

Shanghai to Beijing has a high speed line and no cities nearly as big as either of them between the two. Not to mention China's HSR network covers a number of cities over large distances. I think that'd be the better comparison to the US, no? Large geography with pockets of higher population?

Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#223

Post by theluketaylor »

ojbyrne wrote: post #128
hx8 wrote: post #66

If you were to pick a dozen likely stops on this train, you'll likely end up with a name collision. Vancouver, Washington and Vancouver, British Columbia. It's fun to think about how they would handle this. Would they use the full names in all documentation. Would they give one of the locations a nickname, such as "Southern Washington" or "British Columbia". I also wonder what would be the largest mishap that could h…

My favorite name collision is Ontario, CA (city, state) and Ontario, CA (province, country).

The Ontario’s are funny. I often get something shipped and think it’s close at hand for southern Ontario, only to be disappointed when I realize it’s in California and it’ll be a few days before it even hits the border.

Saint John NB and St John’s NL is one I find endlessly funny. On paper it should not be a collision, and even out loud it really isn’t one, yet I know multiple people who have independently flown to the wrong one.

Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#224

Post by bombcar »

ghaff wrote: post #111
bombcar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC the Auto Train is the only long-distance route Amtrak runs that is net profitable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Train It's possible other corridors could be identified that could run something like that, though it probably needs to be about 800-900 miles to make it "worth" it time wise - shorter and it's simpler to just drive.

It’s mostly the Northeast Corridor from Boston to DC where Amtrak makes the majority of its profits though—which it then mostly loses in the rest of the country. The auto train to Florida is sort of a special case. That’s not people traveling for a long weekend or even a week. It’s historically been people going south for the winter. Not sure it’s profitable though don’t see recent numbers.

If they really run that train every single day year round, and it almost always sells out, it can't just be people going south and back, or the winter trains would be empty.

I think it's just a common trip and the train is cheap/convenient enough.

Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#225

Post by rz2k »

specialist wrote: post #215
rz2k wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve misunderstood the arrangement. They were not granted the land where the rails were laid alone. They were granted vast amounts of additional real estate, and the value of that land could have maintained the railways in perpetuity. However, similarly vast fortunes were extracted from the railways instead, and the generational wealth created during these events in the 1800s has proved more durable than th…

Yup. Those massive land grants begat timber companies. Which in turn begat real estate and development companies. The story's similar for ranching, mining, power, telecommunications, etc, etc. TLDR: The government is the source of all wealth. Which is terrific. So long as the government's ongoing investments are repaid in kind.

You could also say that people choose a system that creates an environment for them to thrive and attracts more people who then also thrive.

Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#226

Post by bombcar »

djcapelis wrote: post #163
bombcar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California's spent something like $9 billion and they hadn't a single mile of track by 2022. Maybe we should do a crawl/walk/run instead of jumping directly to HSR.

This is what zero miles of track looked like in 2022: https://youtu.be/gAZqaESaZLg This is what zero miles of track looks like a year later: https://youtu.be/luX35wVJt84 You can today in the Central Valley look at large construction sites and structures, some of which are finished. Go 100 miles up the alignment, and see construction and structures there too. None of those sites have laid track yet, but there’s hundre…

It's understandable, and necessary, but it's also amusing that the CA HSR project has made (and opened) many miles of roads and bridges for cars and yet doesn't have any trains to run.

Of course, if they had started with a ten mile section of track in some place easy to drop in tracks then everyone'd make fun of it for only having two stations ten miles apart or something.

Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#227

Post by bombcar »

hifromLA wrote: post #153
bombcar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California's spent something like $9 billion and they hadn't a single mile of track by 2022. Maybe we should do a crawl/walk/run instead of jumping directly to HSR.

Yeah but they’re actually making progress. The project has plenty to criticize but it’s way more of a punching bag than it needs to be. The hard part is land acquisition, lawsuits, grade separations, etc. once you have that tracks are a piece of cake. CA also is walking with basic train service. The Pacific Surfliner (3rd most used Amtrak route) and the San Joaquin (5th most used Amtrak route). Literally the 2 most u…

At least LOSSAN is slowly improving the Surfliner; I wish more of the focus had been on doing something like that (it's in phase 2 or 3 to completely doubletrack it from LA -> SAN but that's technically separate and Del Mar may prevent it nearly forever).

Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#228

Post by irrational »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #155
irrational wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does there need to be a balance? Wyoming is considered the most Republican state. Do people there talk about there needing to be more balance?

what people? no one lives there

This is a hypothetical, speaking as if Wyoming actually existed.

Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#229

Post by forrestthewoods »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #201
forrestthewoods wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York City has the best public transit in the US… and the longest commute times. Average commute time in Tokyo (58 minutes) is twice as long as Seattle (27.5 minutes). It’s not the same problem as induced demand, but the net effect is similar. Ultra dense, transit rich cities are more expensive and have longer commute times. There’s no free lunch.

The problem in NYC [1] is that 21.4% of people have > 60 min commutes, which probably is the same problem with Tokyo and many US cities: COL is really high so commuters come in from long distances to commute. Fukuoka has a 30 min average commute time, closer to Seattle. Moreover the real important thing when it comes to commute time is that driving requires active participation. Sure you can listen to whatever music…

> I mean, are we seriously comparing the capital, operational, and environmental costs of a train with tens of thousands of BEV cars and the charging infrastructure required to make this work?

Not really. Because transit dorks never fucking talk about how much anything costs. It’s quite frustrating.

I’ll take a 30 minute driving commute over a 45 minute transit commute every day of the week. YMMV.

Re: Plans develop for high-speed rail in the PNW

#230

Post by chrisweekly »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #21
foota wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the tracks are the most expensive part though, no? Although I'm not sure if you mean the physical tracks are in poor condition or the layout. If it's the layout, that's not much easier to fix than building a HSR. They may not even be able to fix the railroad company owned tracks?

It is the layout. They had a nice bypass set up, but the first day the train derailed and it has just recently re-opened. Sharing track with freight is a PITA: the freight trains don't care about going fast (so no really straight tracks) and they often have priority especially if the cascade is running off schedule, causing even more delays. Not sure where they are going to build new straight-enough HSR track unless…

"the first day the train derailed"

!! that's astonishing.

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