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IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

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Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#171

Post by nologic01 »

scarygliders wrote: post #78

I've been on IRC since the 90's and was an Op for Undernet #Linux & #Japan for many years, used to run an IRC server for a small IRC network back in my London days, and also ran a server for the same little network in my Japan days... The article was excellent, however, it made no mention of Matrix. Matrix, like IRC, is decentralised. You can run your own homeserver - just like running an ircd. Connecting to a Matrix…

Its still somewhat slow with loading existing chats but Matrix has serious potential. It is already doing much better than the fediverse in terms of discovering niche communities.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#172

Post by INTPenis »

I dislike web chat for one reason, the overview is very limited.

So Matrix, with a bitlbee plugin or a text client, would be amazing imho.

I'm just so used to seeing many lines of text, and getting a good quick overview of what is going on that way. Sometimes I use /last in irssi, and very rarely I've searched through a channel's web archive. But mostly I just see whatever it is I need directl in the client. If it's a slow chat I see it the next day. It's not going anywhere.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#173

Post by magsarion »

tester756 wrote: post #153
magsarion wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Voice Chat Integrating a Jitsi bot into the channel solves this. > Good text chat (images, code snippets, emojis, reactions, etc) All possible with good old web linking. Link to an image host, a pastebin, or a file host of your choice. Many IRC clients support inline display of image/media URLs. All major IRC clients and servers support UTF-8 as well, so emoji away. > Streaming Video (!!) Jitsi (with a bot) or web…

>Also lack of transparency. The self-hosted open alternatives are auditable and can be inspected. Nobody knows what Discord does with user data or what security issues exist. This doesnt solve (or doesnt even tries to solve) my issue AT ALL. I'd rather have Discord have some user data that I'm consciously putting there instead of my enemies from the game DDoSing/Stalking me I've played hardcore MMORPGs and this is se…

> I'd rather have Discord some user data that I'm consciously putting there instead of my enemies from the game DDoSing/Stalking me

Security by obscurity is not a real solution. If you have a public IP connected to the internet, you will be subjected to attacks and port scans either way.

Configure your network and firewall correctly and ensure no ports are open instead of trusting the false sense of security given by some proprietary vendor who has your data.

> sounds like: go put effort and decrease your UX.

"UX" is subjective. For me, Discord has horrible UX, with its flashy, slow, obnoxious UI and its incessant cacophony of tips, "new feature" notifications, and advertisements for "Discord Nitro".

Putting in the one-time effort to configure an IRC client (and making it "fancy") seems worth it to me instead of having to continually put up with Discord's whims. At least there is no threat of enshittification with this approach. "IRC Nitro" will never be a real thing. With Discord, you can never be sure. Elon might just decide to buy it on a whim and rename it something like "XDickswords" if he feels like it.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#174

Post by the_gipsy »

jacooper wrote: post #67
the_gipsy wrote: post #17

Matrix is a very viable chat protocol: I have been using it now full-time for some months. I even bridged my whatsapp and telegram accounts so that I exclusively use the matrix clients on my phone and desktop without hiccups. I find that I can use it both for IRL friend groups á la whatsapp, and for online "rooms" á la IRC/discord/slack (but with history, which IRC is lacking).

How do you deal with the terrible element client? I use matrix, but I don't bridge my accounts because I can't trust element.

Element mobile isn't as smooth as WhatsApp/Telegram but it isn't terrible either.

If you don't trust then there a few alternative mobile clients and plenty of options on desktop. I use iamb which is modal TUI like vim.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#175

Post by Ekaros »

magsarion wrote: post #121
rvz wrote: post #66

That ship has sailed. IRC lost to Discord years ago. Don't care about it being closed source. IRC also lost to the Matrix protocol as not only that is much better, it is also just as competitive with Element and they are making money, meaning that they can afford to add more features. IRC is prehistoric ancient history. It's time to evolve and leave that protocol in the dust and go with modern alternatives like Matri…

[dead]

It will be around, but it will be used by about same number of people... It won't grow from where it is now. Unless it fundamentally changes.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#176

Post by toastal »

I like that Prosody MUCs default to just giving you the last 20 messages–enough to give you context of the current topic. Shipping the entire history like Matrix & others do is more that should be necessary for the communications best suited for chatrooms. If you needed something to be longer lived, it should have been on the forum and/or mailing list.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#177

Post by shrimp_emoji »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #167

Discord vs IRC is just another extension of the "open, decentralised vs proprietary, centralised social media" debate. It baffles me that even people who are aware of, and opposed to, the ongoing enshittification of Twitter and Reddit would so happily choose Discord. That said, I think privacy is a weak argument against Discord (or, rather, a weak argument for IRC). I have used IRC for many years and I never assumed…

I care about privacy and flexibility and the other things decentralization gets you, but I grew up with instant messengers (Yahoo, WLM, now Discord, which is the closest thing to WLM in feature completeness yet still not at parity since it's a thin client where every feature rent seeks). Not only could I barely figure out how to use IRC last time I tried, but it doesn't have things I've come to expect, like avatars, emoticons, file transfer with embedded previews, etc. D: That shit's in the Stone Age!

I'm excited by projects like Element, which is Matrix protocol-powered Discord but open source, but, aside from network performance and feature parity, network effects rule social tech. You're doomed to use Discord if nobody uses Element.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#178

Post by Filligree »

tremon wrote: post #100
pmoriarty wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could just use an IRC bouncer. But, yeah, I understand this is beyond the capabilities of your typical user, and not something most users even know exists. This is really a UI/UX deficiency of IRC, not a functional deficiency.

I disagree that it's merely a UX deficiency, but I agree that it's not a protocol deficiency. Yes, indeed you could just use an IRC bouncer: the problem is that many users don't have easy access to such a bouncer. What IRC "needs" is a network of open bouncers that users can subscribe to.

So IRCCloud?

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#179

Post by the_gipsy »

tester756 wrote: post #16

Discord haters look, it is simple. Until Discord appeared we had Ventrilo, Mumble, TeamSpeak, Skype, etc, etc I've been using those for like 10 years almost everyday They had voice chat, some had viable text chat, etc, etc. And then Discord appeared which had: Voice Chat, Good text chat (images, code snippets, emojis, reactions, etc) Streaming Video (!!) File share Robust bot integration Lack of security problem unli…

> Push to talk

Isn't that solveable on the OS level? I have a global mic mute toggle hotkey, this could be done on keydown/keyup too.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#180

Post by Zetice »

pmoriarty wrote: post #46
ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities. Discord's logging is shitty because: 1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever. 2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Disco…

Literally all of your concerns are 100% solved by adding a log bot to the channels you care about, both on IRC and Discord.

I’m beyond sick of the helplessness performative shtick around Discord. This is an ancient problem with obvious solutions. Do better.

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