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IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

161–170 of 446 posts

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#161
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think there's just a disconnect in culture. Making IRC more viable towards those who like Discord etc. would fundamentally change and ruin it for many who like IRC. And vice versa. So IRC will never resurrect and be used by the masses again.

I think it never was used by masses... Maybe teens and even then I never found it particularly ergonomic.

Discord was definitely the school age crowd.

Voice chat before cell phones with unlimited meant calling your friends

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#162
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities. Discord's logging is shitty because: 1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever. 2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Disco…

IRC is an information black hole where data that crosses the event horizon (scrolls off screen) will never return. Sure, you can write your own logs, but does your business want you creating even more information to have to submit as evidence if you’re sued? What a nightmare.

...Don't do shit worth getting sued over?

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#163
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRC3 chathistory extension is less than 5 years old and still an unstable "work in progress" spec. Absolutely fantastic that it was finally added but IRC is 34 years old, and this has been an essential feature of chat services for at least 20 of those years. I'd love to see it's introduction now save IRC but given the seeming resistance to adding it, one wonders how long any other improvements will take.

How old is slack and discord? Slack is just a modern irc interpretation. It literally started running on top of IRC. Discord got popular because it was one of the only chats that kids could access and install in school. It wasn’t a serious tool.

> just a modern irc interpretation

This is the point isn't it. If IRC were fit for purpose, we wouldn't need "modern interpretations".

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#164

Matrix is a very viable chat protocol: I have been using it now full-time for some months. I even bridged my whatsapp and telegram accounts so that I exclusively use the matrix clients on my phone and desktop without hiccups. I find that I can use it both for IRL friend groups á la whatsapp, and for online "rooms" á la IRC/discord/slack (but with history, which IRC is lacking).

How do you deal with the terrible element client? I use matrix, but I don't bridge my accounts because I can't trust element.

What trust issues are there with elements if someone is self hosting?

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#165
post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities. Discord's logging is shitty because: 1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever. 2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Disco…

"1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's." is the absolute best selling point. you are at serious risk if you say anything a censor would deem bad if the logs were ever surfaced and your anonymity were compromised.

people in the west have a lot of freedom in this and don't really need to care at the moment, but imagine living in the CCP or Thailand and bad mouthing the supreme leader?

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently Teams does have push-to-talk, although it's not switched on by default. [ https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/muting-and-unmuti... ]

Unfortunately, this only works unless you have a textfield focused or something similar that "consumes" your keyboard input. At least in my experience, it's quite unreliable.

lol I bet this is a problem caused by UWP "security"

same way Wayland broke push to talk for ages in Linux desktops (incl. in Discord).

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#167
Discord vs IRC is just another extension of the "open, decentralised vs proprietary, centralised social media" debate. It baffles me that even people who are aware of, and opposed to, the ongoing enshittification of Twitter and Reddit would so happily choose Discord.

That said, I think privacy is a weak argument against Discord (or, rather, a weak argument for IRC). I have used IRC for many years and I never assumed that anything I put on there was private. Everything you post can be seen and trivially recorded by other users as well as the server operator.

To me it's more about not having your access to social media entirely at the whim of a corporation whose incentives are not aligned with yours and who, sooner or later, is going to come under significant pressure to monetise you. So I guess, in a word, control is the main advantage. This includes control over whether you can access the service, how you access it, what you can access and on what terms you can access it. IRC's simplicity is a definite plus in that regard.

And then you have the "average user", who ruthlessly selects for ease of use and cost and doesn't care about any of this stuff. I think that is a short-sighted position, but ultimately people will make their choice and the average user's preference for walled gardens built by VC-backed corporations is so strong I think it unlikely to be reversed by any amount of blogs or HN comments. I think these services (or their successors) will always continue to exist and will probably always be far more popular than the open alternatives, but it is still worth maintaining and promoting those alternatives, which can provide a sustainable platform for those of us who care about such things.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#168

Discord haters look, it is simple. Until Discord appeared we had Ventrilo, Mumble, TeamSpeak, Skype, etc, etc I've been using those for like 10 years almost everyday They had voice chat, some had viable text chat, etc, etc. And then Discord appeared which had: Voice Chat, Good text chat (images, code snippets, emojis, reactions, etc) Streaming Video (!!) File share Robust bot integration Lack of security problem unli…

> Push2Talk - this is also important, I dont understand how e.g Teams dont have this shit.

MS Teams does support this feature, though you have to activate it first: see

> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msteams/forum/all/teams-... (concise answer)

> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/muting-and-unmuti... (documentation)

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#169

Matrix is a very viable chat protocol: I have been using it now full-time for some months. I even bridged my whatsapp and telegram accounts so that I exclusively use the matrix clients on my phone and desktop without hiccups. I find that I can use it both for IRL friend groups á la whatsapp, and for online "rooms" á la IRC/discord/slack (but with history, which IRC is lacking).

How do you deal with the terrible element client? I use matrix, but I don't bridge my accounts because I can't trust element.

I'm not sure why you don't trust Element. It's open source, so you could just look at the code yourself to determine whether you can trust it.

I personally use the nheko client since it is a native client and less bloat (in other words, no Electron stuff).

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