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IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

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Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#131

Post by j45 »

Arch-TK wrote: post #55
ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

There are good reasons to not have a backlog in a chat system. For one it stops you from being lazy and not maintaining FAQs and documentation. It also forces you to stop treating the chat as something you need to keep up to date with. At work I see people commonly scrolling back for pages and pages to find the last read marker and continue reading from there. This seems unhealthy to me. I use a bouncer but I very ra…

This is a good point.

Using chat as a source of truth is not a good idea

Over time it becomes more and more ridiculous to use it as your knowledge base.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#132

Post by yard2010 »

nottorp wrote: post #59
tester756 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think, because I used to run 2 accounts for a few years. >I still have to use the official client to log on to all of them so they can just ban all if their AI thinks I'm a communist pedophile terrorist. so... what? Your country can cause you a lot of harm too if they think you're pedophile terrorist. That's edge case, not something that happens to 99.99% of the users.

A lot of countries tend to have some sort of due process, as opposed to a chat server's "AI".

I don't know where you live but in my country the best you can get is a tough bureaucracy process that most people can't afford that hardly can be called "due process"

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#133

Post by j45 »

Arch-TK wrote: post #89
op00to wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked on a global team and conversation happens 24/7. When my bouncer dropped, I would miss out on critical stuff.

If discord had a blip and stopped working for your global team then you would have a more catastrophic problem surely? Regardless, what is your point? I never claimed that conversions can't happen when you are not online, just that you should design your conversations such that it doesn't matter if someone isn't online. The problem you just described was caused not by IRC and its lack of backlog but by you and your t…

IRC bots literally maintained a history for anyone to catchup.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#134

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

I somehow fail to see how you cannot implement an IRC server that does logging and offers search/download of them on the side.

That existing IRC implementations may be antiquated mammoth shit shouldn’t prevent anyone from building something new.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#135

Post by j45 »

lucideer wrote: post #27
RomanAlexander wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's built in support for this https://www.unrealircd.org/docs/Channel_history

The IRC3 chathistory extension is less than 5 years old and still an unstable "work in progress" spec. Absolutely fantastic that it was finally added but IRC is 34 years old, and this has been an essential feature of chat services for at least 20 of those years. I'd love to see it's introduction now save IRC but given the seeming resistance to adding it, one wonders how long any other improvements will take.

How old is slack and discord?

Slack is just a modern irc interpretation. It literally started running on top of IRC.

Discord got popular because it was one of the only chats that kids could access and install in school. It wasn’t a serious tool.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#136

Post by j45 »

veave wrote: post #25
ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

I like that IRC has no backlog support. When you join a channel it's like you actually joined a room. You don't know what they were talking about when you weren't there.

Having the days history could be useful.

Still maybe there could be a way to summarize those chats with some kind of a transforming generative text system that I hope exists one day.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#137

Post by j45 »

agumonkey wrote: post #79
veave wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that IRC has no backlog support. When you join a channel it's like you actually joined a room. You don't know what they were talking about when you weren't there.

It's a very interesting topic. Feature will alter the sociological / human aspect of the tool. I could feel it on discord, you join a room like on IRC, you join a realm, a group with lots of idiosyncrasies. When I join an IRC chat there's a lot less baggage.. it's just a label / topic, it's very freeing. logging, message fixing, embedded replies .. all great but not important in the end. These things are blending pro…

Threading is handy though. Although keeping track of so many convos was half the fun of irc.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#138

Post by j45 »

Avamander wrote: post #29
veave wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that IRC has no backlog support. When you join a channel it's like you actually joined a room. You don't know what they were talking about when you weren't there.

Depends on the server. Many servers give you a reasonable amount of backlog before joining. A lot of regular users use something nice like Quassel or ZNC.

Good point, connecting to a client or bouncer right on the server resolves this.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#139

Post by Grom_PE »

No, I much prefer XMPP MUC to IRC.

- Doesn't expose your IP address by default

- No need to fiddle with automating responses to NickServ to log in

- No need to register with that specific chat server, can simply use your XMPP account for any server

- No annoying netsplits

- Supports multiline text messages

- Has avatar, away status, profile info support

- Can show about 20 last messages when you join a chat so you have some context of the conversation

- Nicknames can have spaces and Unicode

- Can transparently join from multiple devices under a single nickname, no need to kill a "ghost" from time to time after a lost connection

- Configurable with GUI instead of cryptic modes designated by a single character symbol that varies from server to server

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#140

Post by naikrovek »

discord is great, ideal maybe, except for the closed nature.

IRC as a protocol is extremely simple and that has value, and I feel that Discord's UI, search, built-in history, and finer-grained permissions (finer than anything IRC can do, anyway) are all plusses that IRC advocates should not discount.

other great features that Discord has which are discounted by IRC afficionados: replies. inline image and short video support. reactions. very high quality video streaming and voice chat (though IRC can be forgiven here given the time period in which it arose.)

these things almost all matter to modern day users. saying that no one needs them because you don't need them or want them is gatekeeping and is myopic and short-sighted.

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