Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 446 posts

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#81

Post by cout »

masklinn wrote: post #28
ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

Beyond the backlog support, it's the addressing of the backlog. Discord's search function is so bad it's essentially unusable so having the backlog is often useless, however the ability to "pin" a useful message or discussion by getting a link is very relevant. Baseline IRC doesn't have message addressing, regardless of backlogging. You need the "message-tags" extension ( https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/message-ta…

Calling search unusable is hyperbole. I've used search on discord many times to find a discussion from the past.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#82

Post by Ekaros »

fruitreunion1 wrote: post #71
__david__ wrote: post #20

I don’t have anything against IRC, but to suggest it as an alternative to Discord shows such a fundamental lack of understanding of what Discord is good for that I’m kind of baffled. If you’re looking for self hosted alternatives then Matrix (especially with the latest video/voice chat rooms)is much closer to what Discord offers, but even that isn’t really a viable replacement for the core use case of Discord: voice…

Yeah, I think there's just a disconnect in culture. Making IRC more viable towards those who like Discord etc. would fundamentally change and ruin it for many who like IRC. And vice versa. So IRC will never resurrect and be used by the masses again.

I think it never was used by masses... Maybe teens and even then I never found it particularly ergonomic.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#83

Post by pmoriarty »

op00to wrote: post #74
roenxi wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This perspective is internally consistent but reveals why IRC struggles without better logging support - the sort of person who is connected and savvy enough to keep logs does fine. Doesn't need them. The people who use IRC are comfortable with that lack. But the people who use logs won't use IRC, and the people who often miss out on important conversations because they are only casual users will not have logs. Casua…

I worked in a global team. When I got booted off VPN I would have my irc connection drop and I would miss critical conversations. IRC sucks for collaboration.

You could just use an IRC bouncer.

But, yeah, I understand this is beyond the capabilities of your typical user, and not something most users even know exists.

This is really a UI/UX deficiency of IRC, not a functional deficiency.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#84

Post by smarx007 »

scarygliders wrote: post #78

I've been on IRC since the 90's and was an Op for Undernet #Linux & #Japan for many years, used to run an IRC server for a small IRC network back in my London days, and also ran a server for the same little network in my Japan days... The article was excellent, however, it made no mention of Matrix. Matrix, like IRC, is decentralised. You can run your own homeserver - just like running an ircd. Connecting to a Matrix…

Same thought – I was surprised to see no mention of Matrix or XMPP.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#85

Post by nemetroid »

__david__ wrote: post #20

I don’t have anything against IRC, but to suggest it as an alternative to Discord shows such a fundamental lack of understanding of what Discord is good for that I’m kind of baffled. If you’re looking for self hosted alternatives then Matrix (especially with the latest video/voice chat rooms)is much closer to what Discord offers, but even that isn’t really a viable replacement for the core use case of Discord: voice…

I don't think these are the use cases that the article is against. There are plenty of text-only uses of Discord, see e.g.:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36746154

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29712098

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#86

Post by lightedman »

masklinn wrote: post #28
ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

Beyond the backlog support, it's the addressing of the backlog. Discord's search function is so bad it's essentially unusable so having the backlog is often useless, however the ability to "pin" a useful message or discussion by getting a link is very relevant. Baseline IRC doesn't have message addressing, regardless of backlogging. You need the "message-tags" extension ( https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/message-ta…

"Discord's search function is so bad it's essentially unusable"

Discord's search function is 1,000x better than what's built into Windows 10 and 11. I've found pictures I posted from years ago in discord, Windows 10 can't even find half the files I downloaded and transferred to another drive the other day.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#87

Post by hoyd »

ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

To preserve logs, I would ssh into a screen on a server that was connected.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#88

Post by throw2022110401 »

rvz wrote: post #66

That ship has sailed. IRC lost to Discord years ago. Don't care about it being closed source. IRC also lost to the Matrix protocol as not only that is much better, it is also just as competitive with Element and they are making money, meaning that they can afford to add more features. IRC is prehistoric ancient history. It's time to evolve and leave that protocol in the dust and go with modern alternatives like Matri…

> IRC lost to Discord years ago.

A couple of years ago you'd have told me the exact same thing but with s/Discord/Slack/

IRC has "lost" many times before and yet it's still around while the previous "winners" are all gone or irrelevant. Even if Discord is tolerable today how long before it becomes terminally enshittified?

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#89

Post by Arch-TK »

op00to wrote: post #80
Arch-TK wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are good reasons to not have a backlog in a chat system. For one it stops you from being lazy and not maintaining FAQs and documentation. It also forces you to stop treating the chat as something you need to keep up to date with. At work I see people commonly scrolling back for pages and pages to find the last read marker and continue reading from there. This seems unhealthy to me. I use a bouncer but I very ra…

I worked on a global team and conversation happens 24/7. When my bouncer dropped, I would miss out on critical stuff.

If discord had a blip and stopped working for your global team then you would have a more catastrophic problem surely?

Regardless, what is your point? I never claimed that conversions can't happen when you are not online, just that you should design your conversations such that it doesn't matter if someone isn't online.

The problem you just described was caused not by IRC and its lack of backlog but by you and your team and your misuse of a backlog-less chat system.

Important announcements shouldn't be done on IRC. For that matter, neither should they be done on Teams, Slack, Discord, Matrix, XMPP, or Skype. Important announcements belong on a web page and a mailing list (both simultaneously) or alternatively on some other purpose built system which tracks who has seen an annoucement so that if important announcement is missed by a key player, someone is alerted and can reach out using an alternative method of communication.

But even if you insist on misusing a chat protocol like IRC for this, ask someone who was there for their logs? I don't understand how nobody on your global team was able to even just summarize what you missed.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#90

Post by Jiig »

imtringued wrote: post #64
nottorp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's start with one account between all servers. And one censoring authority. Nope, not a good idea.

I have so many discord accounts because they won't let you change your avatar based on the server. Yeah there is a way to register accounts without phone number verification. I did it four times. The trick is that they block you if you do anything suspicious and any account created under this 'suspicious' state demands phone verification. I don't know how they identify you, but you must succeed with your first try. S…

I think they added it pretty recently, but you can change your whole profile per server now if you have nitro

https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/4409388345495-...

Post reply on HN