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IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

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Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#71

Post by fruitreunion1 »

__david__ wrote: post #20

I don’t have anything against IRC, but to suggest it as an alternative to Discord shows such a fundamental lack of understanding of what Discord is good for that I’m kind of baffled. If you’re looking for self hosted alternatives then Matrix (especially with the latest video/voice chat rooms)is much closer to what Discord offers, but even that isn’t really a viable replacement for the core use case of Discord: voice…

Yeah, I think there's just a disconnect in culture. Making IRC more viable towards those who like Discord etc. would fundamentally change and ruin it for many who like IRC. And vice versa. So IRC will never resurrect and be used by the masses again.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#72

Post by op00to »

pmoriarty wrote: post #60
imtringued wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recorded logs back in my IRC days but I never used them for anything or searched through them. That is a complete red herring. Nobody who uses IRC cares about persistent chat. What most people want is to see the last X hours of chat history while they were offline, so if they open their chat client they don't have to stare at an empty window, not the last X months. Also you forgot to say that Discord had a high qua…

I don't know if you ever used IRC to get help on technical issues, but I've done that a lot, and going back to figure out what the solution was to a particularly thorny technical problem that someone told me about years ago has been something I've done multiple times.

Yeah, let’s just spend 30 minutes grepping the IRC logs!

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#73

Post by 1337biz »

pmoriarty wrote: post #46
ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities. Discord's logging is shitty because: 1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever. 2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Disco…

I would put logging as a bottom tier feature for most chats. The characteristic of chats is in the moment and not some archival function. I am a heavy discord and telegram user but overall I would value the benefit of everything getting deleted after 72hours higher than the few times I actually search for something older than that.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#74

Post by op00to »

roenxi wrote: post #57
imtringued wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recorded logs back in my IRC days but I never used them for anything or searched through them. That is a complete red herring. Nobody who uses IRC cares about persistent chat. What most people want is to see the last X hours of chat history while they were offline, so if they open their chat client they don't have to stare at an empty window, not the last X months. Also you forgot to say that Discord had a high qua…

This perspective is internally consistent but reveals why IRC struggles without better logging support - the sort of person who is connected and savvy enough to keep logs does fine. Doesn't need them. The people who use IRC are comfortable with that lack. But the people who use logs won't use IRC, and the people who often miss out on important conversations because they are only casual users will not have logs. Casua…

I worked in a global team. When I got booted off VPN I would have my irc connection drop and I would miss critical conversations. IRC sucks for collaboration.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#76

Post by firesteelrain »

I use Discord for my CTF team going back four years. Our lead will sometimes say “to prepare for the next one, search Discord…” which kind of works. There are some software that uses Discord for tech support. Since Discord isn’t indexable by Google, all of that information is then locked up in Discord’s “knowledge base” forever.

This is more against the migration of these “knowledge base” services to Discord chat than a knock against Discord itself.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#77

Post by op00to »

1337biz wrote: post #73
pmoriarty wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities. Discord's logging is shitty because: 1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever. 2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Disco…

I would put logging as a bottom tier feature for most chats. The characteristic of chats is in the moment and not some archival function. I am a heavy discord and telegram user but overall I would value the benefit of everything getting deleted after 72hours higher than the few times I actually search for something older than that.

My company uses chats as information stores. Not saying it’s the best idea, but you are an outlier with your preference.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#78

Post by scarygliders »

I've been on IRC since the 90's and was an Op for Undernet #Linux & #Japan for many years, used to run an IRC server for a small IRC network back in my London days, and also ran a server for the same little network in my Japan days...

The article was excellent, however, it made no mention of Matrix.

Matrix, like IRC, is decentralised.

You can run your own homeserver - just like running an ircd.

Connecting to a Matrix homeserver with a suitable client - I use Element - you get all the equivalent benefits of IRC (chat) but with the additional Discord-like benefits of being able to post images in-chat, text formatting.

Another benefit is chat history (if configured for a room). Also, fully encrypted rooms. You can have voice and video rooms too.

What I'm trying to say, I suppose, is that I'm a full convert now to Matrix. It's better than Discord in that Discord is a walled garden, whereas Matrix - like IRC - is completely decentralised, and I highly recommend using Matrix over IRC these days.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#79

Post by agumonkey »

veave wrote: post #25
ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

I like that IRC has no backlog support. When you join a channel it's like you actually joined a room. You don't know what they were talking about when you weren't there.

It's a very interesting topic. Feature will alter the sociological / human aspect of the tool. I could feel it on discord, you join a room like on IRC, you join a realm, a group with lots of idiosyncrasies.

When I join an IRC chat there's a lot less baggage.. it's just a label / topic, it's very freeing.

logging, message fixing, embedded replies .. all great but not important in the end. These things are blending professional complexity with normal human moments. Not the right optimization (if optimizations are required at all)

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#80

Post by op00to »

Arch-TK wrote: post #55
ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

There are good reasons to not have a backlog in a chat system. For one it stops you from being lazy and not maintaining FAQs and documentation. It also forces you to stop treating the chat as something you need to keep up to date with. At work I see people commonly scrolling back for pages and pages to find the last read marker and continue reading from there. This seems unhealthy to me. I use a bouncer but I very ra…

I worked on a global team and conversation happens 24/7. When my bouncer dropped, I would miss out on critical stuff.
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