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IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

41–50 of 446 posts

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#41
post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

I prefer no built-in logging (which is and has been easily achieved with bots that loiter in the channel and store messages) in place of orders of magnitude more resources required to run the server. Looking at Matrix btw. XMPP does not have the resource issue, and has XEPs for message archives.

You can look at Matrix, but it won't help you, since Matrix additionally has a DAG datastructure for decentralized chatrooms, which allows to recognize and deal with bad servers in an open federation.

Additionally, it's richer in features

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#42
Tell me what happened your freenode?

Discord is IRC's next evolution. Next generation chat. Good voice, excellent interactivity.

It has problems (bugs & weak beta phases) but after nearly 20 years of irc, i stopped my bnc (currently znc) instance last week. ~20 years of irc, countless bots, tons of good memories.

it is time to say goodbye for now.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#43
post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

Importance of a feature depends largely on use-cases.

Chat is not just for business. Its use-case existed even before notion of business came to be.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's start with one account between all servers. Go ahead and create 1 account per 1 server, nothing prevents you. I've actually been doing it for some time - school (1 server) & private discord account (like 10 servers). >And one censoring authority. Sure, that's valid concern, I respect it. For me it's a trade off.

> Go ahead and create 1 account per 1 server, nothing prevents you. You think? I still have to use the official client to log on to all of them so they can just ban all if their AI thinks I'm a communist pedophile terrorist.

Yes, I think, because I used to run 2 accounts for a few years.

>I still have to use the official client to log on to all of them so they can just ban all if their AI thinks I'm a communist pedophile terrorist.

so... what? Your country can cause you a lot of harm too if they think you're pedophile terrorist.

That's edge case, not something that happens to 99.99% of the users.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#46
post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities.

Discord's logging is shitty because:

1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever.

2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Discord.

3 - Paging through hours or days of Discord logs is so incredibly painful, because every few screenfuls or so Discord has to load the previous/next logs and that is super slow compared to paging through text logs offline. If you have a lot of logs to page through, this experience is absolutely atrocious.

4 - There's no easy way to export the logs to be processed with standard/powerful text manipulation tools, like text editors, sed, etc..

Discord's search is painful because:

1 - There's no regex search.

2 - No ability to search via web search engines, because the logs aren't available on any website (see above).

3 - No way to search through the logs of multiple servers at once.

I have IRC logs going back decades, from servers I haven't been on in decades, but they're all instantly searchable, and the text in them is easily manipulable.

My Discord logs are trapped in Discord and I'm forced to use Discord's pretty but otherwise horrible UI to search them.

No, the reason Discord is popular has nothing to do with logging, but everything to do with how easy it is to sign up, join, and get a server running. Inline images and not having to learn obscure IRC commands or figure out obtuse IRC clients are also huge plusses for your average user. Discord's client is also visually pleasing -- something that most IRC client developers still haven't figured out. Aesthetics matter to users, as Apple has proved.

But Discord is an information black hole where data goes to die.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#47
post #25
post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

I like that IRC has no backlog support. When you join a channel it's like you actually joined a room. You don't know what they were talking about when you weren't there.

How about partial backlogs? Like say I could "subscribe" to certain keywords (upto a max limit if that's necessary, say 10) and the server will store all messages containing those words or my username.

If I need more context about those messages when I return, I can just ask those users (or a bot).

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#48
post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

Discord has shitty logging and log-search capabilities. Discord's logging is shitty because: 1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever. 2 - Unlike the logs of some IRC channels, Discord's logs aren't available on the web anywhere, so they can't be indexed or searched outside of Disco…

I recorded logs back in my IRC days but I never used them for anything or searched through them. That is a complete red herring. Nobody who uses IRC cares about persistent chat. What most people want is to see the last X hours of chat history while they were offline, so if they open their chat client they don't have to stare at an empty window, not the last X months.

Also you forgot to say that Discord had a high quality voice chat back when such a thing was nonexistent in the web and the various desktop clients like Skype were a crapshot or were obscure and required you to host your own server like Mumble.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#49

Was IRC ever used privately and internally within the workplace? I'd like to know if anyone did. I only ever used it briefly with forum communities and some older OSS projects. At work, it has only ever been Slack. Some older employees recall using Skype for Business.

US Army did. Not sure if they still do.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#50

Discord haters look, it is simple. Until Discord appeared we had Ventrilo, Mumble, TeamSpeak, Skype, etc, etc I've been using those for like 10 years almost everyday They had voice chat, some had viable text chat, etc, etc. And then Discord appeared which had: Voice Chat, Good text chat (images, code snippets, emojis, reactions, etc) Streaming Video (!!) File share Robust bot integration Lack of security problem unli…

Apparently Teams does have push-to-talk, although it's not switched on by default.

[ https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/muting-and-unmuti... ]

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