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SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

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Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#141

Post by machdiamonds »

W0lfEagle wrote: post #124
machdiamonds wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I wonder how many times over Tesla makes up for it.

Zero?

Tesla's sales of approximately 4.5 million vehicles have each offset about 20 tons of CO2 over their lifetimes compared to a traditional gas vehicle [1]. This equates to preventing a total of 90 million tons of CO2 from entering our atmosphere. As we continue to transition to renewable energy, the environmental benefits of each Tesla vehicle are set to increase further.

In contrast, a SpaceX launch generates around 300 tons of CO2 [2], totaling about 72,600 tons of CO2 for the 242 launches to date. We mustn't forget the wide-ranging benefits these launches provide, from improved weather forecasting and GPS services to crewed missions to the International Space Station.

If we subtract the CO2 emissions from SpaceX launches from the CO2 savings attributed to Tesla, we see a net savings of about 89,927,400 tons of CO2.

90,000,000 / 72,600 = 1,240x

The emissions from his remaining companies are comparably negligible. Furthermore, this calculation doesn't account for Tesla's influence on the automotive industry, propelling other manufacturers to accelerate their production of EVs. As Tesla's sales continue to rise and EVs become more accessible through Tesla's charging network, these benefits will be multiplied. Also, this doesn't factor in the positive environmental impact of Tesla's energy division, which likely offsets the emissions from all of his other companies on its own.

[1] https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/comparative-l...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/19/billionaires...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_He...

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#143

Post by [deleted] »

panick21_ wrote: post #9
nbltanx wrote: post #7

Starlink plans to deploy 12,000 - 42,000 satellites. What if two competitors want to do the same? Can the low earth orbit handle 150,000 satellites that turn into space debris at some point?

The waste, waste majority of sats never turn into space debris. Every single sat that launches today in the West has a deorbit planned. The only sat that turn into space debris will be those that brake unexpectitly and totally unrecoverable. And the Starlink sats are so low that they dont really turn very meaningful debris ever. And in general, yes LEO can handle millions of sats. We have like 150k cars in a single t…

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#144

Post by machdiamonds »

Kerb_ wrote: post #138
machdiamonds wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I wonder how many times over Tesla makes up for it.

The harm they cause to public transportation (such as politically stalling rail systems with Hyperloop) outweighs the good they do with their cars, especially now that car companies that don't directly hurt more efficient forms of transport are making electric cars. And self driving taxis, if they ever do make it which is still waaaaay out even by Elon time, are not going to balance it out.

Indeed, Elon Musk made an effort to halt the California high-speed rail project, but failed, leading to the project pushing forward. The repercussions have been billions of taxpayer dollars funneled into a project that remains considerably far from completion. The budget has skyrocketed from a modest $9 billion to an eye-watering $128 billion. Adding insult to injury, the first phase isn't expected to kick off until 2030. Given the speed at which FSD is advancing, it's quite likely that it will be fully developed before this rail service even gets off the ground. Interestingly, the original 2008 target completion date for the rail project was 2020, but not a single mile of track had been laid by that time. As such, blaming Musk's efforts for the state of California's issues seems misplaced. One can't help but wonder if things might have been better off if his attempt to cancel the project had been successful.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/29/california-h...

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#145

Post by 3cats-in-a-coat »

lmm wrote: post #87
3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. We call those paths roads.

And cars never take a sudden unpredictable turn off the road?

They do. Now make them move ten times faster than an airplane. What happens?

Mind you I'm not the one who came up with the TERRIBLE analogy with cars. Millions of people a year die in car accidents, and this was somehow the example that's supposed to convince us that if "cars are safe" then satellites travelling 100x faster than a car over our heads (and 10x faster than an airplane) are also safe. The whole construct betrays extremely sketchy thought process.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#146

Post by reaperman »

angiosperm wrote: post #139
perihelions wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't believe the ionosphere has any role in any sort of radiation absorption, outside of RF?

The Ozone Layer is considerably lower than the Ionosphere proper, and protects all surface life from ionizing solar UV radiation. It most likely is as damaged by rocket exhaust as the ionosphere, and much more slowly healed. That undoubtedly deserves its own article, which will unavoidably be confused with this one and be considered old news.

Why would O3 be damaged by H2O? SpaceX rockets are powered by hydrogen and oxygen and produce water as exhaust.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#147

Post by rewmie »

machdiamonds wrote: post #144
Kerb_ wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The harm they cause to public transportation (such as politically stalling rail systems with Hyperloop) outweighs the good they do with their cars, especially now that car companies that don't directly hurt more efficient forms of transport are making electric cars. And self driving taxis, if they ever do make it which is still waaaaay out even by Elon time, are not going to balance it out.

Indeed, Elon Musk made an effort to halt the California high-speed rail project, but failed, leading to the project pushing forward. The repercussions have been billions of taxpayer dollars funneled into a project that remains considerably far from completion. The budget has skyrocketed from a modest $9 billion to an eye-watering $128 billion. Adding insult to injury, the first phase isn't expected to kick off until…

> Indeed, Elon Musk made an effort to halt the California high-speed rail project (...) As such, blaming Musk's efforts for the state of California's issues seems misplaced.

Ok. So you agree Musk tried to sabotage California high-speed rail, but as he failed then... We should ignore it?

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#148

Post by youngtaff »

panick21_ wrote: post #9
nbltanx wrote: post #7

Starlink plans to deploy 12,000 - 42,000 satellites. What if two competitors want to do the same? Can the low earth orbit handle 150,000 satellites that turn into space debris at some point?

The waste, waste majority of sats never turn into space debris. Every single sat that launches today in the West has a deorbit planned. The only sat that turn into space debris will be those that brake unexpectitly and totally unrecoverable. And the Starlink sats are so low that they dont really turn very meaningful debris ever. And in general, yes LEO can handle millions of sats. We have like 150k cars in a single t…

Yeh, but what happens when they all burn up?

It’s pollution of the upper atmosphere on a huge scale and we don’t know what side effects that will produce

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#149

Post by simonh »

ddq wrote: post #57
pseg134 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not seem like a big issue but it speaks to the attitude of billionaires. I am no longer free to vent personal amounts of coolant from a refrigerator but Elon Musk can punch all of the holes he wants with his expensive rockets.

They stole the commons from us and hold it ransom.

Where by ‘stole’, you mean granted licensed access to the commons by elected representatives, under strict regulation and monitoring, in order to provide services to the public at competitively bid prices.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#150

Post by rewmie »

machdiamonds wrote: post #141
W0lfEagle wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero?

Tesla's sales of approximately 4.5 million vehicles have each offset about 20 tons of CO2 over their lifetimes compared to a traditional gas vehicle [1]. This equates to preventing a total of 90 million tons of CO2 from entering our atmosphere. As we continue to transition to renewable energy, the environmental benefits of each Tesla vehicle are set to increase further. In contrast, a SpaceX launch generates around 3…

> Tesla's sales of approximately 4.5 million vehicles have each offset about 20 tons of CO2 over their lifetimes compared to a traditional gas vehicle [1].

Aren't you presuming that Tesla is the only seller of electric vehicles, and those who bought Tesla would thus never even consider buying any other electric vehicle?

I mean, currently Tesla represents around 15% of the overall EV sales, and BYD auto alone representing 21%. This means that as of right now around of 85% of all ev buyers are not buying Tesla.

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