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SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

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Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#71

Post by reaperducer »

b33j0r wrote: post #50
ghaff wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have people who would largely prioritize for astronomical observations over rural internet—perhaps because they think people should be living in cities anyway. I’m only being mildly sarcastic.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. (They can just be awfully hard to count, no matter who counts.)

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Glad to hear it! Because I know a large family that doesn't have a computer. I'll send you their address so you can mail them yours!

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#72

Post by starbase »

pseg134 wrote: post #55
esquivalience wrote: post #5

Seems like this isn't considered to be a big issue, beyond that it is a very visible thing that instinctively 'feels' like a bad idea. > Rocket engines spray water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2) into the ionosphere, quenching local ionization by as much as 70%. A complicated series of charge exchange reactions between oxygen ions (O+) and molecules from the rocket exhaust produce photons at a wavelength of 6300 Å–the…

It may not seem like a big issue but it speaks to the attitude of billionaires. I am no longer free to vent personal amounts of coolant from a refrigerator but Elon Musk can punch all of the holes he wants with his expensive rockets.

ionosphere is not the ozone layer, and nobody is allowed to vent freon from their old refrigerators

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#75

Post by InspiredIdiot »

rdlw wrote: post #61
idlewords wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that all distinct orbits at the same altitude eventually collide.

What do you mean? If they're both circular orbits, they'll have the same period, so they'll never collide—they'll always be on opposite sides of the Earth. In fact, this goes for any two orbits with identical periods.

Once anything collides with anything in orbit it has a slightly different trajectory. Any movement up or down will make its orbit more ellipsoidal than the original orbit. Also the atmosphere moves up and down in response to solar wind and therefore varies in both time and space. Atmospheric drag is apparently still a factor up to 600km https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/impacts/satellite-drag

Debris in a crowded orbit will eventually collide, no matter how synchronized it all was initially.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#76

Post by s3p »

jcims wrote: post #54
panick21_ wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decay where the waste majority of it is gone in 10 years is just not long enough to meaningfully have a Kessler syndrom. The reality humanity wouldn't even have the launch capacity to put enough into orbit in that time period for it to matter. The real concern for meaningful space debris issues is in the regions where decay requires 100+ of years. The articles mentions the ASAT because that's what they used to st…

just because I appreciate it when people do it for me waste -> vast https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vast

Thank you for this. Is 'waste' used in a specific vernacular? I've never heard of someone saying waste instead of vast before.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#77

Post by ericd »

pseg134 wrote: post #55
esquivalience wrote: post #5

Seems like this isn't considered to be a big issue, beyond that it is a very visible thing that instinctively 'feels' like a bad idea. > Rocket engines spray water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2) into the ionosphere, quenching local ionization by as much as 70%. A complicated series of charge exchange reactions between oxygen ions (O+) and molecules from the rocket exhaust produce photons at a wavelength of 6300 Å–the…

It may not seem like a big issue but it speaks to the attitude of billionaires. I am no longer free to vent personal amounts of coolant from a refrigerator but Elon Musk can punch all of the holes he wants with his expensive rockets.

Why do you want the ability to vent such potent greenhouse gasses?

I'd like the ability to visit space at some point in my life, and I'd like our species to become experienced at doing things in space. Like, if we need to be able to deploy something in space to decrease the amount of heat we're taking in to try and buy more time to decarbonize before we're completely F'd because of all the people venting potent greenhouse gasses from their HVAC systems, it'd be nice if we already had a space industrial complex capable of supporting that goal.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#79

Post by eqvinox »

"molecules from the rocket exhaust produce photons at a wavelength of 6300 Å – the same color as red auroras."

Anyone else have this use of Ångström trigger an exception in their brain? The unit of default for wavelength is nm, not Å… (1nm=10Å)

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#80

Post by cdot2 »

saagarjha wrote: post #52
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. Deserves some numbers. California's area is about 500 thousand km^2, and the Earth's is about 500 million, which means the side facing the Sun is about 250 million, so we're talking about 0.2% of the area facing the sun. Suppose the hole takes six hours to heal (the article makes it sound like it takes much less), and suppose there's a launch every month (since launches have in the past carried 600 satell…

Right, but presumably the effects are greater for the people in California?

Yeah they get to see red lights and have trouble with HF HAM radio. If youre aware of other effects please share.
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