Era of Global Boiling Has Arrived, UN Chief Says • Hacker News Board

Re: Era of Global Boiling Has Arrived, UN Chief Says

#11

Post by TheCoelacanth » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 2:59 PM UTC

brutusborn wrote: post #6

soligern wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your solution is to sit on your hands and do nothing. You may be an anti environmental shill or a simple defeatist, either ways you’re wrong. China and India are both furiously building nuclear reactors that will over time reduce their emissions. Both those countries are also massively building up their solar power generation.

I don't mean to suggest apathy. I mean that whatever solutions we come up with need to be realistic and take into account geopolitical. The east may be building lots of nuclear and renewable but their emissions are still rising much faster than the west. I hope that changes but I don't see any reason to believe that.

Emissions in developing are rising being they are starting from a much lower baseline. We can't expect them to just stay poor forever for the our benefit.

If rich countries set an example of how to have a high standard of living without massive per capita pollution, the rest of the world will follow that.

Re: Era of Global Boiling Has Arrived, UN Chief Says

#12

Post by brutusborn » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 4:48 PM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #11

brutusborn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to suggest apathy. I mean that whatever solutions we come up with need to be realistic and take into account geopolitical. The east may be building lots of nuclear and renewable but their emissions are still rising much faster than the west. I hope that changes but I don't see any reason to believe that.

Emissions in developing are rising being they are starting from a much lower baseline. We can't expect them to just stay poor forever for the our benefit. If rich countries set an example of how to have a high standard of living without massive per capita pollution, the rest of the world will follow that.

I’m not expecting anyone to stay poor, I just want politicians and scientists to call a spade a spade.

I don’t think the rest of the world will necessarily follow. If there is a competitive advantage to pollute, poor countries will do so. It’s similar to how we expected China to follow the democratic model.

I think the ideal solution is some kind of tariff regime that makes emitters pay equivalent externalities. This could be done for all pollution, not just ghg.

Re: Era of Global Boiling Has Arrived, UN Chief Says

#13

Post by XitN » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 4:50 PM UTC

soligern wrote: post #4

brutusborn wrote: post #2

Alarmist nonsense. I would be interested to see how he justifies the belief that “It is still possible to limit global temperature rise to 1.5C.” Even if all the rich countries stop all emissions, poor countries will continue emitting for a long time. I haven’t seen any climate plans which explicitly consider this. In the same way the west falsely hoped that Chinese growth would lead to Democracy, we are assuming tha…

So your solution is to sit on your hands and do nothing. You may be an anti environmental shill or a simple defeatist, either ways you’re wrong. China and India are both furiously building nuclear reactors that will over time reduce their emissions. Both those countries are also massively building up their solar power generation.

Both those countries are simultaneously building out their coal power

Re: Era of Global Boiling Has Arrived, UN Chief Says

#14

Post by soligern » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 11:36 PM UTC

brutusborn wrote: post #12

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emissions in developing are rising being they are starting from a much lower baseline. We can't expect them to just stay poor forever for the our benefit. If rich countries set an example of how to have a high standard of living without massive per capita pollution, the rest of the world will follow that.

I’m not expecting anyone to stay poor, I just want politicians and scientists to call a spade a spade. I don’t think the rest of the world will necessarily follow. If there is a competitive advantage to pollute, poor countries will do so. It’s similar to how we expected China to follow the democratic model. I think the ideal solution is some kind of tariff regime that makes emitters pay equivalent externalities. This…

No, tariffs should not be equitable. If anything there should be a certain threshold of the development status of a country above which the tariffs should apply. It’s fair as well, the vast majority of greenhouse emissions up to this point have been from countries that are currently developed.

The rest of the world will follow because renewable energy is beyond/at the cusp of being cheaper than fossil fuels and no one is interested in maintaining a reliance on oil from the Middle East, Russia and Northern Europe.

Re: Era of Global Boiling Has Arrived, UN Chief Says

#15

Post by brutusborn » Sat, Jul 29, 2023, 3:12 AM UTC

soligern wrote: post #14

brutusborn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not expecting anyone to stay poor, I just want politicians and scientists to call a spade a spade. I don’t think the rest of the world will necessarily follow. If there is a competitive advantage to pollute, poor countries will do so. It’s similar to how we expected China to follow the democratic model. I think the ideal solution is some kind of tariff regime that makes emitters pay equivalent externalities. This…

No, tariffs should not be equitable. If anything there should be a certain threshold of the development status of a country above which the tariffs should apply. It’s fair as well, the vast majority of greenhouse emissions up to this point have been from countries that are currently developed. The rest of the world will follow because renewable energy is beyond/at the cusp of being cheaper than fossil fuels and no on…

Developed countries aren’t going to fund the transition in poor countries. And if we don’t include them a tariff like system, they will have no incentive to decarbonise.

I’d love renewables to be cheapest, but if you include storage and demolition of old panels/wind turbines then this isn’t the case. There’s a reason coal/gas plants are still being built. If it was actually cheaper to go renewable, it would be the only power source we see.