Live data from Hacker News

SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

spaceweatherarchive.com

21–30 of 231 posts

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#21
post #11

So now they'll also have to deal with "preserve the ionosphere" activists who have no clue.

I saw an earlier article about this on Newsweek, and that's exactly what happened. In fact one poster thought this meant we were "punching holes" in the atmospheres of other planets.

The term "punching a hole" is absurd, IMO.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars don’t constantly move thousands miles an hour uncontrollably

Cars also don’t move in easily predicted patterns for decades without turning from their predetermined path.

They sort of do though.

Cars, for the most part, follow the road and the direction they're already going. They (usually) signal if they're about to make changes. And to be safe, we've built an arrangement that they only travel on these specific paths at specific speeds, modifying their speed to match the other cars they might hit.

The challenge with satellites is that steering is hard and very limited. And they don't have brakes they can slam to come to a stop if they need to suddenly avoid a collision.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will excess radiation leak through to Earth during re-ionization?

If the holes are quickly healed by sunlight, and only local to where a satellite is launched, the answer would seem to be no.

> One famous example occured on August 25, 2017, when a Falcon 9 rocket carrying Taiwan’s FORMOSAT-5 satellite created a hole four times bigger than the state of California.

Doesn't sound too local to me.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#24
> Sudden GPS errors can also result from the anomalies.

When we fly drones especially BVLOS operations we sometimes encounter some GNSS anomalies, that in some cases we just cancel the mission that day and the next day it’s with no issues. Could it be that’s the reason? Who knows, but it might be an issue later with crewed drones.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#25
post #19
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only insignificantly. Most of the radiation is filtered/diverted by the magnetosphere. The only really practical effect of the disturbance is making the already hard to predict sky-wave propagation of HF even more harder to predict and characterize. Which is today realistically of an interest to HAMs and mostly as an fallback for intelligence agencies and diplomatic services. Edit: It also somewhat changes the scatte…

What about high frequency trading shops?

That is completely different definition of HF. And if they use radio (lower latency than fiber, in theory and in right circumstances ), it is somewhere between SHF and EHF (C through V in the IEEE nomenclature), ie. what sane person would informally call “microwave”, not HF.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#26
post #7

Starlink plans to deploy 12,000 - 42,000 satellites. What if two competitors want to do the same? Can the low earth orbit handle 150,000 satellites that turn into space debris at some point?

LEO is big, but only a few orbits are desirable and all circular orbits at the same altitude cross twice, by definition. It’s like slot cars, but much lower probability of an “intersection event.”

That’s fun! Of course, we do already have something analogous to FAA altitude separations. But that requires everyone everywhere to cooperate in real-time, and mandates some degree of maneuverability. I guess orbital decay is only a concern for aircraft when they aren’t trying to land.

What you have to watch out for is the eventual rise of the Kessler Cult, who (according to me) will seek to block all access to space intentionally ;)

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#27
post #24

> Sudden GPS errors can also result from the anomalies. When we fly drones especially BVLOS operations we sometimes encounter some GNSS anomalies, that in some cases we just cancel the mission that day and the next day it’s with no issues. Could it be that’s the reason? Who knows, but it might be an issue later with crewed drones.

If it’s crewed is it still a drone?

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The waste, waste majority of sats never turn into space debris. Every single sat that launches today in the West has a deorbit planned. The only sat that turn into space debris will be those that brake unexpectitly and totally unrecoverable. And the Starlink sats are so low that they dont really turn very meaningful debris ever. And in general, yes LEO can handle millions of sats. We have like 150k cars in a single t…

Cars don’t constantly move thousands miles an hour uncontrollably

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The waste, waste majority of sats never turn into space debris. Every single sat that launches today in the West has a deorbit planned. The only sat that turn into space debris will be those that brake unexpectitly and totally unrecoverable. And the Starlink sats are so low that they dont really turn very meaningful debris ever. And in general, yes LEO can handle millions of sats. We have like 150k cars in a single t…

> the Starlink sats are so low that they dont really turn very meaningful debris ever. Is that right? Scientific American seemed to think it could be a problem in 2019[1]. Space.com says Starlink satellites orbit at an altitude of about 342 miles (550 kilometers)[2]. And the Wikipedia article on Kessler Syndrome[3] (which is a chain reaction of satellite debris) mentions an incident at 555km that was problematic: "In…

Space junk at that altitude does turn into debris, but it tends to deorbit on its own in around 5-10 years.

The real danger is space junk that's at much higher altitudes. OneWeb and Telesat Lightspeed (in planning) operate at 1000+ km, where space junk will take 1000+ years to deorbit on its own. And OneWeb has already had a satellite failure where it can't deorbit the satellite.

Re: SpaceX punched a hole in the ionosphere

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The waste, waste majority of sats never turn into space debris. Every single sat that launches today in the West has a deorbit planned. The only sat that turn into space debris will be those that brake unexpectitly and totally unrecoverable. And the Starlink sats are so low that they dont really turn very meaningful debris ever. And in general, yes LEO can handle millions of sats. We have like 150k cars in a single t…

> the Starlink sats are so low that they dont really turn very meaningful debris ever. Is that right? Scientific American seemed to think it could be a problem in 2019[1]. Space.com says Starlink satellites orbit at an altitude of about 342 miles (550 kilometers)[2]. And the Wikipedia article on Kessler Syndrome[3] (which is a chain reaction of satellite debris) mentions an incident at 555km that was problematic: "In…

I don’t have references for this, but my understanding is that you have more to worry about space debris that is higher/faster than lower/slower. The atmospheric drag is such that any out of control craft at [some threshold] or under will deorbit themselves fairly quickly, and the debris will burn up entirely. I believe that threshold is around 450-500km, but it’s also probably not a literal height, more of a gradient of risk. Higher/faster, they will be up there for longer (years? decades?) and it’s harder to predict where any broken pieces will go over time.
Post reply on HN