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Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#181

Post by NegativeLatency »

uoaei wrote: post #131
alexpetralia wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Routinely in New York City at least, you can kill someone using a motor vehicle almost with complete impunity. The driver who led to Sammy's Law (which still hasn't passed) only received a 180 day license suspension a year and a half after the accident, even though he sped past a stopped vehicle on the righthand side (the vehicle had stopped for the child). Death by car is often considered acceptable. There is really…

Which is absolutely wild to me. It is a great responsibility to wield a multi-ton machine in the proximity of other people. Driver's licenses are handed out quite freely and it seems the reason has less to do with competence than a complete failure of the economy as we know it if people couldn't bring themselves between the places that earn them money and the places they spend them, especially considering how far apa…

It seemed wild to me years ago, but in aggregate and after reading your comment it makes more sense. Private vehicle ownership is a great deal for for a variety of businesses (cars, insurance, maintenance, road builders, oil companies, attorneys), and who cares if a few people die, because that's how capitalism works. :(

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#182

Post by nonethewiser »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #159
nonethewiser wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true with rough and tumble play as well. Which i imagine is virtually non-existant for kids raised only by single mothers. And is extremely important for adolescent boy.s Basically it teaches limits - what hurts and what causes pain to others. And overall leads to much healthier social development. Jordan Peterson talks a lot about this https://youtu.be/Ay1KVzVXbjc

How on earth do you even get to the conclusion that rough and tumble play is off limit for kids of single mothers? Those kids are much more likely to go unsupervised for extended periods of times and are also more likely to learn life skills earlier as they support their mother.

I never said it was off limits.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#183

Post by lfowles »

ddq wrote: post #146
lfowles wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, it's not just that I'm anxious the toy will break. It's that I'm anxious the behavior will continue and the replacement will be broken in short order and so on.

Why replace it? You're just teaching the child that breaking things has consequences for others but not for them.

I've tried preaching philosophy to my toddler but he just doesn't seem to get it for some reason :) Some toys do get "broken" (but easily fixed so they reappear in a week or more), but out of sight means out of mind! He won't even remember it exists as soon as he gets thirsty and wants his drink instead, so effectively there are already zero consequences outside of a minute of anguish. I, on the other hand, do like the option of having toys to distract him while fixing dinner and some are way more effective than most.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#184

Post by brianmcc »

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

I really like this. The only thing that's missing from it is "fun" perhaps? I don't think it's "playing" unless there's also some intrinsic enjoyment!

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#185

Post by borski »

kajaktum wrote: post #172
seszett wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern society can't seem to tolerate even a single dead children You mean parents can't seem to tolerate even a single dead child. And that's true, especially when most parents only ever have one or two children. Obviously they don't want them to die. To parents, their children aren't an abstract idea or a number that they can rationalize away.

> You mean parents can't seem to tolerate even a single dead child. And that's true, especially when most parents only ever have one or two children. If every parents react the same way then that is effectively the whole society no? Imagine the reaction of a modern day town if a child had broke their neck from the playground, what would the reaction? I wouldn't put demolishing the playground outside of the realm of p…

> Imagine the reaction of a modern day town if a child had broke their neck from the playground, what would the reaction?

This is extremely locale-dependent. In the US? There would be lawsuits, fences, height restrictions, and so on.

In the Netherlands? They’d put up a sign, maybe.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#186

Post by honkycat »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #149

"About 1 in 36 children has been identified with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) according to estimates from CDC's Autism." When I was growing up, basically no one had it. The rates were 1 per 1,000 or lower. So one or two kids in the entire high school. Now you can expect one in your class. Many of these kids are supper naive and vulnerable, just trying to fit in. One reason why the right is skeptical of what is bein…

You know that weird kid in your class? That kid would have an ASD diagnosis these days.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#187

Post by borski »

lfowles wrote: post #111
HWR_14 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We know the toy will break if it's repeatedly thrown down the stairs, so we impose a rule that "we don't do that in our house" For many parents, the toy is expensive enough that it warrants a rule (like the stove.)

Indeed, it's not just that I'm anxious the toy will break. It's that I'm anxious the behavior will continue and the replacement will be broken in short order and so on.

Make them work for it. If they break a toy, they have to work to get the replacement. Very early on, that might just mean doing their chores on time, or reading a book, or whatever - but the point is that when they break something, it takes work to replace.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#188

Post by chmod775 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #176
HWR_14 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We know the toy will break if it's repeatedly thrown down the stairs, so we impose a rule that "we don't do that in our house" For many parents, the toy is expensive enough that it warrants a rule (like the stove.)

It's all relative. For us, it's fine to watch my kid completely smash a lego set down the stairs because they're holding it like a waiter, it's another thing when it's the Nintendo 3DS (both examples from this week)

> it's another thing when it's the Nintendo 3DS (both examples from this week)

On the other hand, if you don't buy them a new 3DS right away, there's a valuable lesson here somewhere.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#189

Post by moffkalast »

> There is also evidence that teens who have part-time jobs are happier than those who don’t, because of the sense of independence and confidence they gain from the job.

Genuinely wondering where they got any data for that, given that child labour is generally illegal these days and all. What kind of part time jobs for children that pay actual money exist in the present?

I suppose you've got the rare ones like acting, modelling, toy testing, but those come with a lot of other factors that are probably hard to control for and in most cases I doubt the kids are paid directly. Maybe they counted getting $5 from your parents for mowing the lawn.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#190

Post by pj_mukh »

Tade0 wrote: post #139
pj_mukh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it paranoia? If it wasn’t for guns, cars would be the number killer of kids under 16. Note: This includes kids IN cars being ferried around from activity to activity. Granted the numbers are lower now than before but that’s because of various safety and traffic calming efforts. Seems like we should push harder on that front, so parents can feel safe encouraging their kids to just pop over to their friends place on…

According to this poll: https://reason.com/2014/08/19/august-2014-reason-rupe-nation... Americans are split regarding whether there should be a law requiring 12-year-olds be supervised when playing in a park - no cars there. As an European, to me this is absurd. At twelve I had a bus card and the privilege to go wherever, as long as I respected curfew.

Well that's my point, the parents thinks its a dude in a white van to be scared off.

But the numbers say its the actual white van going too fast on a four lane road (speed limit 45mph) next to the park. This isn't that much of a problem in older European cities.

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