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Rethinking Window Management

blogs.gnome.org

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Re: Rethinking Window Management

#251

Post by lproven »

KerrAvon wrote: post #136
iamcalledrob wrote: post #93

People generally have pretty good spatial sensibilities, and I feel like modern OS designers seem to forget this. You feel this especially on iPadOS. Physically arranging windows allows for a much more solid multi-tasking experience, and encouraged direct manipulation of content e.g. drag and drop. Transient "palette" or "panel" windows allow for a short term buffer (think a find/replace panel). To me, this is what m…

Single window apps came in with NeXT. I heard a theory early on in the NeXT/Apple merger that it was because the window server buffering was so heavyweight on early hardware that multiple windows just made things too slow. While I personally agree with you, I think you're overestimating the desire of most users to manage multiple window clutter themselves except in very limited contexts.

No, not even slightly, as others have said.

NeXT sold megapixel displays as standard. It was considerably more window-heavy than most GUIs because it was only sold to power users.

Hell, even menus went in their own window!

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#252

Post by lproven »

Projectiboga wrote: post #209
iamcalledrob wrote: post #93

People generally have pretty good spatial sensibilities, and I feel like modern OS designers seem to forget this. You feel this especially on iPadOS. Physically arranging windows allows for a much more solid multi-tasking experience, and encouraged direct manipulation of content e.g. drag and drop. Transient "palette" or "panel" windows allow for a short term buffer (think a find/replace panel). To me, this is what m…

I got kissed at Apple when they took over soundjam, killed its audio and visual plugin capability and made it into itunes.

"Kissed"...?

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#253

Post by lproven »

geon wrote: post #148
jwells89 wrote: post #61

As a longtime macOS user, while I don't mind the rest of how it handles windows/apps I've never liked the fullscreen mode that was added in 10.7, and the GNOME fullscreen mode mentioned in the blog post is identical. I don't maximize windows often, but when I do I don't usually want the window to be spirited away to its own separate universe, and the apps that actually need fullscreen implement that functionality ind…

I use almost exclusively fullscreen windows in macos. A couple of apps are splitscreen. I like to have 2 terminals side by side. And there is a kitchen sink screen where I put random windows.

De gustubus non est disputandum.

I hate fullscreen mode, and I use an addon, Rightzoom, to disable it. I don't use gestures, and I sold my Magic Trackpad. I use a PC mouse on my Mac, with 5 buttons, including critically a middle button, which I use hundreds of times a day. And a mechanical clicky full-travel keyboard. I have 2 × 27" monitors and each is usually showing at least 2, maybe 3, windows. I only keep Spaces enabled for the independent menu bars; I never use the functionality.

I am not saying you're wrong. I just find it an amusing example of how different separate people's preferences can be.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#254

Post by lproven »

jwells89 wrote: post #172
znpy wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the GNOME fullscreen mode mentioned in the blog post is identical after being given a macbook pro for work, i can't stop thinking that gnome developers/designers people are just people that didn't manage to get hired by Apple, and just keep copying mac os over and over again.

What GNOME takes from macOS is mostly things that are shared with iPadOS, interestingly. The Mac-unique bits, especially anything power user oriented, don’t typically get copied. So if anything I’d say that GNOME is more like a desktop reimagining of iPadOS.

Yes, agreed.

I used to think that GNOME 3 was a poor rip-off of Unity, which was a quite decent rip-off of OS X which I still enjoy using today. I am typing in a Waterfox window under Unity right now.

But then I worked out that no, that's just cosmetics, similarly to ElementaryOS. In fact, it's a desktop version of iOS/iPadOS, as implemented by people who don't know how to drive MS Windows with the keyboard, so they reinvented a whole bunch of stuff.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#255

Post by lproven »

tbyehl wrote: post #197
pentagrama wrote: post #156

The native Windows 11 windows management feature (called "snap layouts") was great for me. I get it instantly and use it easily with the pointer or the keyboard. One of the best features of the 11 version to me. I think that for regular users is a great entry point to have a more power user experience, of course it will not be enough for everyone and a lot of power users will demand more specific behaviors. Demo: htt…

It has been around since Windows 7! The hover on the maximize button they added in Windows 11 definitely improves the discoverability and usability vs the original display edge snap behavior. I do wish it provided more layouts for vertical tiling on wider displays.

No, not quite.

Edge snapping has been around since Vista or 7, but this is new and additional, and as a long-term avoider of Windows for >20 years now, I have to admit, it's good and it's the single thing in Win11 I actually like and admire.

Watch the vid.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#256

Post by lproven »

akira2501 wrote: post #90
eddd-ddde wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://dwm.suckless.org/

dwm is great. I took it and ripped all the tiling manager code out of it and turned it into a generic window manager. What has kept me using it all these years is the "window move" and "window resize" system that fell out of this change. Hold down ALT and CLICK1 on a window, _anywhere_ on that window, and you go into "window move" mode. No need to seek out the "titlebar", just click and move. Hold down ALT and CLICK3…

> Hold down ALT and CLICK1 on a window, _anywhere_ on that window, and you go into "window move" mode. No need to seek out the "titlebar", just click and move.

This is a standard X.org feature. It works on more or less all Linux window managers; I checked and it works perfectly on Unity, as expected, and it did back in 2011 or so when it was launched.

I don't want the 2nd feature you describe, but I have seen the option for it in some other WMs.

Taekwindow adds it to MS Windows: http://taekwindow.net/

Note that the site also documents how it works.

This is not a dwm feature and nothing to do with dwm.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#257

Post by lproven »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #33

Every time when I look at what has become of Gnome, I wish Unity didn't die. Almost everything I loved in Gnome2 was broken or took a turn for the worse.

> I wish Unity didn't die

Hi from Unity on Ubuntu 23.04.

I am running the Unity flavour:

https://ubuntuunity.org/

It uses the latest Unity 7.7, released earlier this year:

https://gitlab.com/ubuntu-unity/unity-x/unityx

I run it on 3 or 4 machines, one of which has 2 screens and one of which has 3. Works great, scales well, handles modern Ubuntu just fine.

I use it with the Waterfox browser, which integrates natively with the Unity global menu bar, without any addons or config. I am currently on -- (hits alt-H, A) -- version 5.1.9.

https://www.waterfox.net/

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#258

Post by lproven »

_8j50 wrote: post #162

Back when I first started learning C, I had an idea to have a GUI environment where instead of windows you have cubes. Not random 3d objects bit 2D compatible abstractions similar to windows that render what would be a window on one face for regular apps but for 3d apps, different faces and relationship between cubes can be configured. I coded something very basic in opengl but gave up after getting camera movements…

« Not random 3d objects bit 2D compatible abstractions similar to windows that render what would be a window on one face for regular apps but for 3d apps, different faces and relationship between cubes can be configured »

Sun's "Project Looking Glass" did some of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass

It's the only windowing environment I have seen that uses the fact that windows have 2 faces: the front holds content, the back holds config.

It was a clever design but it didn't get far.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#259

Post by akira2501 »

lproven wrote: post #256
akira2501 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dwm is great. I took it and ripped all the tiling manager code out of it and turned it into a generic window manager. What has kept me using it all these years is the "window move" and "window resize" system that fell out of this change. Hold down ALT and CLICK1 on a window, _anywhere_ on that window, and you go into "window move" mode. No need to seek out the "titlebar", just click and move. Hold down ALT and CLICK3…

> Hold down ALT and CLICK1 on a window, _anywhere_ on that window, and you go into "window move" mode. No need to seek out the "titlebar", just click and move. This is a standard X.org feature. It works on more or less all Linux window managers; I checked and it works perfectly on Unity, as expected, and it did back in 2011 or so when it was launched. I don't want the 2nd feature you describe, but I have seen the opt…

> This is a standard X.org feature.

It is implemented entirely by the window manager. Perhaps other WMs have adopted it, but the X server does not do this. It's why you need a window _manager_.

> I don't want the 2nd feature you describe, but I have seen the option for it in some other WMs.

I can only recommend it. Being able to move and position your windows quickly while removing all window manager framing around your windows is powerful. I'd at least recommend you _try_ it before you publicly talk it down.

> This is not a dwm feature and nothing to do with dwm.

I'm not using dwm, as I've said I've modified it, because dwm is a tiling window manager. These are not tiling oriented features. I can precisely show you the code where this is being done and how it is configured within the event system that I've built for it.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#260

Post by _8j50 »

lproven wrote: post #258
_8j50 wrote: post #162

Back when I first started learning C, I had an idea to have a GUI environment where instead of windows you have cubes. Not random 3d objects bit 2D compatible abstractions similar to windows that render what would be a window on one face for regular apps but for 3d apps, different faces and relationship between cubes can be configured. I coded something very basic in opengl but gave up after getting camera movements…

« Not random 3d objects bit 2D compatible abstractions similar to windows that render what would be a window on one face for regular apps but for 3d apps, different faces and relationship between cubes can be configured » Sun's "Project Looking Glass" did some of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass It's the only windowing environment I have seen that uses the fact that windows have 2 faces: the…

Thanks, that's pretty cool for it's time!
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