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Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#91

Post by smogcutter »

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

If you keep your eyes open for it around (neurotypical) adolescents you’ll see that this is very true. Everything they do that they know is observed by others is an experiment. What happens if I say… what happens if I try… what happens if I wear…

They’re very keenly tuned in to social feedback, far more so than we may realize as adults.

IMO this is also why it’s so important as an adult to be very intentional and unambiguous when appropriate. Flat statements like “that’s rude” or “that was very kind” can be very powerful.

Also worth considering how online interactions change the game- they’re trying all the same gambits, but the kinds of feedback they get are very very different than in person.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#92

Post by roody15 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

Well said!

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#93

Post by jstarfish »

adamredwoods wrote: post #36

Before everyone begins chastising parents: >> He notes that this is a correlation, not proof of causation, although experiments with animals support the claim that play deprivation causes anxiety and poor social development. I also wonder if "playing" in Minecraft, or Roblox supports this definition of play. Or even RPGs like DnD. It's interactive, and allows children to experiment. It's not a physical world, but I d…

> I also wonder if "playing" in Minecraft, or Roblox supports this definition of play. Or even RPGs like DnD. It's interactive, and allows children to experiment. It's not a physical world, but I don't know if these parameters were explored.

I don't think so, but that's my opinion.

These virtual worlds have entirely different sets of rules that do not reflect those of reality or social norms. Kids do go through the same motions of testing boundaries, but they're testing boundaries that would get you punched in the face or jailed IRL-- but they get away with it without consequence because it's all virtual. There's no consequence to scamming other kids in Roblox or destroying people's artwork in Minecraft. It's completely normal behavior to them.

Tabletop D&D doesn't count; it's in-person, so if you're tossing around slurs or being conspicuously offensive, someone will correct your behavior.

That's the extent of their socialization, and then they're unleashed into the real world expecting things to work the same way there.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#94

Post by mrguyorama »

nonethewiser wrote: post #64

> Moreover, the 2019 Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System survey revealed that during the previous year 18.8% of US high school students seriously considered attempting suicide, 15.7% made a suicide plan, 8.9% attempted suicide one or more times, and 2.5% made a suicide attempt requiring medical treatment. Wait a minute, what? Nearly 1 in 10 attempted suicide? So in a middle school of say 400 kids a kid would know…

Maybe there's something like a "mental health crisis" that could be why it's so high.... /s

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#95

Post by C-x_C-f »

shard wrote: post #47
awesomeMilou wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (who are often pushed into scheduled extracurriculars for better academic opportunities) too. Gotta say though, this seems to be purely a thing in the english speaking cultures. Apart from sport and maybe an instrument, extracurriculars aren't a thing in most european countries. Extracurriculars are so peculiar that our ministry of education deems it necessary to make it a mandatory point for teachers to discuss wh…

> this seems to be purely a thing in the english speaking cultures This is a major thing in many East Asian cultures as well, China/Taiwan/Japan/Korea. Korea had to pass a law saying that private academies have to close at 10pm, so that kids aren't studying past midnight, but some academies still stay open secretly as the parents are demanding the extra hours. It's a vicious circle: kids compete for the few spots in…

I'm not familiar with this custom, but wouldn't kids with more balanced extracurricular lives have an advantage over those who fill their day to the brim? Surely after some point you hit diminishing returns, and after that it becomes downright damaging (in terms of mental health etc). So I'd expect the cycle to balance itself after a while, with parents eventually recognizing the importance of downtime. What gives?

(I suppose the answer is that there's an economic incentive in squeezing your kids into a pressure cooker of endless commitments, to the point where the pros outweigh the cons; but this assumption makes me feel like I'm being unfairly cynical to the parents in question.)

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#96

Post by SoftTalker »

NegativeLatency wrote: post #56
fallingknife wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's paranoia. Cars have been around for a long time.

Cars as we know and use them have only been around for 100 years, which is very little time compared to say the evolution of the human brain.

Kids needed to learn to look out for lions and snakes though.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#97

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

vorpalhex wrote: post #58
Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

"Play is the work of the child" - Dr Maria Montessori

We often explained to ours they they were going to work like mommy and daddy, they just work at school (which was a Montessori and it was awesome).

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#98

Post by alexdbird »

lapetitejort wrote: post #61
fallingknife wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's paranoia. Cars have been around for a long time.

Cars have been around for 100 years, but cars with grills taller than the average child going 60 down residential streets is somewhat new.

There are a lot more of them too, they're quieter, and there are more distractions inside for the driver.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#99

Post by OO000oo »

pomian wrote: post #26
Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

Brilliant comment. We had a principal in our little community school who had exactly that attitude. He encouraged 'playing", and was often criticized for his efforts, by parents who didn't understand. Overall, however, the kids from that school were all eager learners, curious as to the world around them, socially very well integrated, and easily adapted to the rigors in high school and later. Play, is under valued.

The parents have every reason for concern, not because there's something wrong with the principal but because there's something wrong with the society their children are entering.

The parents realize that their children will be screwed if they don't get into a good college, and the poorer parents need scholarships too! The principal's philosophical musings won't pay the bills.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#100

Post by lgleason »

The kid that does really well in school, makes it big is going to have an opportunity for a lot more play later in life. The kid who does nothing but play will probably end up having very little opportunity and have to work long hours later in life to barely make ends meet with lots of stress and little opportunity for play. So its a trade off.

Obviously if the kid comes from a rich family that is willing to support and leave all of their money to the kid that changes the equation, but I have seen examples where those kids still ended up as drug addicts etc..

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