Live data from Hacker News

It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

fredandrandall.com

121–130 of 163 posts

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#121

We often find that there are plenty of technically qualified people out there, but what you can do isn’t the only factor in hiring. The most important thing about hiring talent is finding talent that works well with your existing talent. In other words: finding a good CULTURE fit. There are LOTS of smart people out there, but only a small percentage of those people are sociable enough to really do an exceptional job…

Bull. Being part of a team is easy. Shower regulary, say good morning to people, be polite and don't backstab (or don't let them know) it.

People who would work out perfectly in the R&D division of SAS Institute are not necessarily great first hires at consumer web start-ups (forgetting the potential skill impedance mismatches). There are lots of implicit ideas about "how things get done" that are part of any group. These ideas are the culture.

e.g. Does the team practice TDD? Do they focus on unit tests or integration tests? How is work assigned? Does the team prototype ideas or discuss them in the abstract? If someone says something you think is wrong in a meeting, do you confront them publicly or privately? 12-hour days? Do you pick tools that are cutting edge or proven? Duct tape together two open source libs for one feature or write your own? And of course, the classic: Is it better to a) ship early with known non-critical bugs, b) ship on time with no known bugs, but inadequate testing, or c) when all/most stakeholders feel confident the project is bug-free?

These questions aren't nearly as binary as I've presented them (and there are many more). If you and your potential new team don't agree on these issues that's a poor cultural fit. Like a poor technical fit, it doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't be hired, but it does merit significant consideration.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#122
Been working at startups all my life. Got all of them but one from folks I worked with at previous job(s). Except the college hire of course - that was pre-trick-question-interview and my hobby projects caught their interest.

The 'but one' was more interesting. Moved to a new state, drove over to the University incubator, knocked on doors and chatted with people. Nobody turned me away. Two were interested, but one was moving to Detroit (no thanks!) so I took the other one. Worked out pretty good for a couple of years. Total time 'interview to job' - 1 day.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#123
There is a whole field of study, called industrial and organizational psychology, that researches issues like what hiring processes are most likely to obtain employees who do good work for organizations. Studies of many different hiring practices across many different industries and job categories have shown that the two most valid predictors of work performance and success in an occupation are

a) work-sample tests, if one can possibly be devised for a particular job,

and

b) general cognitive ability tests (IQ tests or IQ-like tests such as SAT scores).

Both work-sample tests and general cognitive ability tests have about the same predictive ability (predicting less than half of the variability in actual work performance, but predicting more than any other kind of hiring screen) as each other, and considerably more validity than many more common kinds of hiring procedures.

Expecting job-seekers to have

1) X years of work experience in Y technology,

2) a smooth manner in a face-to-face interview,

3) a degree in field Z from an elite university,

or any of many other hiring criteria are all less likely to identify job-seekers who will be successful on the job than a work-sample test. If the work at your workplace is so complicated and varied that it is difficult to design a representative work-sample test for job-seekers, test the job-seekers' general cognitive ability with one of the validated hiring tests used for that purpose. That can reduce the expense of your hiring process and improve its results.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#124
post #24

From the other side of the desk, what I am most afraid of is letting someone with weak coding or technical chops through the door. It destroys teams. Yes, culture fit is important as is someone who really likes to program and build. You get to that after you've established that the person can code. I'm not talking about the google "how many jelly beans in a bus" thing either. I'm talking "what is an inner join", "wha…

what I am most afraid of is letting someone with weak coding or technical chops through the door. It destroys teams.

Only if you don't fire them. Making hiring mistakes is Ok if you can correct those mistakes. As it stands hiring seems to be a high stakes game of win a job until the next round of layoffs.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#125
post #24

From the other side of the desk, what I am most afraid of is letting someone with weak coding or technical chops through the door. It destroys teams. Yes, culture fit is important as is someone who really likes to program and build. You get to that after you've established that the person can code. I'm not talking about the google "how many jelly beans in a bus" thing either. I'm talking "what is an inner join", "wha…

Why not give everyone a simple test, but give A LOT of people a simple test (which SELECT statement is an inner join...)? What I always here is that 90% can't write a for-loop or a basic regular expression, but look great on paper, and vice versa. EDIT: Recruiters are probably too stupid (usually) to be able to either administer or evaluate such tests and so will always be more interested in the "crisper" resume whic…

> give A LOT of people a simple test (which SELECT statement is an inner join...)?

That is like asking, how do you implement a reduce function in CouchDB? The answer is easy, and would only take a couple of minutes with Google to answer, but I bet even many top programmers could not answer that question off the top of their head.

If you are looking for someone who writes SQL queries all day long, maybe that is a good question. But if you are writing software that does complex visualizations, occasionally pulling some information from an SQL database, should a recite-from-memory knowledge of SQL really make or break the candidate? INNER JOIN syntax is something you can easily query Google for.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#126
post #24

From the other side of the desk, what I am most afraid of is letting someone with weak coding or technical chops through the door. It destroys teams. Yes, culture fit is important as is someone who really likes to program and build. You get to that after you've established that the person can code. I'm not talking about the google "how many jelly beans in a bus" thing either. I'm talking "what is an inner join", "wha…

I'm not talking about the google "how many jelly beans in a bus" thing either. Google interviewers are strongly discouraged from asking questions like this.

I have never interviewed at google. I was going off of the "how to prepare for google interviews" or "a rehash of my google interview" write ups linked to from HN.

Apologies.

I also would note that some candidates for our positions think "wow, all these guys know to ask are basic MySQL and PHP questions?", which makes me suspect other companies or the coder culture at large are asking the type of questions I derisively referred to.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#127
What works for me is:

a) Making the candidate interested - I want them to be really interested in being hired, to ensure he will give his best shot (this is much easier when hiring with a specific spot in mind, which is not always the case);

b) Using a coding test that the candidate can do remotely at the time most convenient for him (http://www.codility.com/ currently - they are really good for this) as a first filter. This establishes basic programming skills, and allows me to...

c) Call the candidate for an in-person conversation and spend much more time discussing higher level questions, validating problem solving skills, and understanding the candidate past history. Unless it is remote position, in which case this will be a phone screening - notice I say an phone and not some kind of crappy can-barely-hear with-echo-or-lag-or-some-other-crap VOIP solution.

Finally, keeping this in mind has helped a lot: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3690544

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#128

This is spot on. I think it's a recruiter problem - many look at the resume and take that as the full story. I have a funny example of this "hiring problem." Shortly after I consulted for a established, public web company, they were hiring a FT person for the same thing (design-related). The dept I consulted for emailed me and asked me to submit a resume and said they'd make sure I floated to the top. What happened?…

Did you mention this to the people you had previously been working for, who knew you, likely recommended you, and could have helped bypass the phone recruiter?

It seems you would be in a prime position to get the job (if you, in fact, wanted it).

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#129
post #51

From the comments here, and in other similar posts, the HN community seems to think only one side of the interview process is broken. I posit that all sides are broken -- yes -- the recruiters, the hiring companies, and YOU, the engineer/marketer/whatever you are. I'm only going to address the one part that matters -- you. Who cares how qualified you are? You think that entitles you to a job? Gimme a break!!! Do me a…

I cannot comprehend how someone could have so "excellent hygiene" that I would want to hire them...

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#130
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google's process is great. The result of the process is a bunch of people that are very easy to work with and smart. I never even have to think about rephrasing something or explaining it more simply; everyone operates at or above my level. The result is a very stress-free work environment where a lot of work gets done quickly. (Except when Google decides to buy out a ski resort and send us there for a couple…

> I never even have to think about rephrasing something or explaining it more simply; everyone operates at or above my level. This implies some others have to think about rephrasing or explaining more simply when speaking with you.

The same thought occurred to me. Perhaps Google is like Lake Wobegon, where everyone is above average. :)

But a kinder interpretation is to note that there is a kind of threshold of intelligence which, if most everyone is across it, makes technical communication much easier. This fact mixed with (false?) humility to yield the mistake.

Post reply on HN