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A copywriter swindled victims out of $200M by pretending to be a psychic

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Re: A copywriter swindled victims out of $200M by pretending to be a psychic

#81

Post by Obscurity4340 »

Aurornis wrote: post #39

A lot of these comments are jumping to victim-blaming, but the headline doesn't really describe the fraud. The article says the fraud they were prosecuted for wasn't even for the "psychic" services. The fraudster took a famous psychic's likeness and purported to be selling interactions with her, when in fact the letters were being destroyed and the responses were mass produced copy. Obviously "psychics" aren't real,…

I mean, I have zero issue with ideological fools having their money legally seperated and repatriated to the grifters, it is not against the law (per se) to tell people what they want to hear and take on their cause no matter how disingenuously. But if you are lying and not fulfilling your side of any exchange, obviously that is illegal or at least legally actionable, as it should be.

Re: A copywriter swindled victims out of $200M by pretending to be a psychic

#82

Post by another-dave »

sb8244 wrote: post #74
another-dave wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't say "Well I thought I was getting REAL magic", because that doesn't exist. You can absolutely say "Well I thought I was getting a REAL car", because it's expected to buy a car, and cars exist. And Maria Duval exists, so it's possible that a bespoke letter from her to you could exist, even if you don't believe the contents. Feels more like saying — if you went to Disneyland & bought a ticket for "Get your…

Got it. Reading the thread it's more about the idea of "buying magic", which is nonsense. "Buying magic from Maria Duval" changes it to fraud assuming that Maria Duval was not involved. Where things become slightly more tricky is that Maria Duval sold the rights to her name to the scam operators before they did the scam. So now the analogy is maybe "you paid for an autograph from Mickey Mouse, but Joe Schmo signed it…

> So now the analogy is maybe "you paid for an autograph from Mickey Mouse, but Joe Schmo signed it instead (you didn't find out until later). Disney sold the rights for Joe Schmo to use the name Mickey Mouse in autographs."

Right, I don't think someone selling something under licence is a problem/fraud, but if it's a key part of the "product" that you're buying is the provenance as well as the content, then that's what makes it fraud. From the article:

> Some correspondence directed recipients to purchase supposedly supernatural objects, while others urged them to use provided green envelopes to mail personal items—family photographs, palm prints, locks of hair—against a promise that the psychic would use them to conduct personalized rituals. “Once this envelope has been sealed, it may be opened ONLY by me,” read one letter that included Duval’s photocopied signature.

You're buying a service where you send in a personal item, it will only be opened by Duval and she'll conduct a personalised reading. Actually, your personal item is getting binned & you're getting a templated response from someone else (if you get any response at all).

Disney Corporation is fine to sell photos of Mickey Mouse with Walt Disney's signature on it or to licence Joe Schmo to do it for them.

But if they said "Original preparatory sketch by Walt Disney, signed by the man himself" and sold it for $10k and it turns out it's a reproduction signed by Joe Schmo, then that's a problem.

Re: A copywriter swindled victims out of $200M by pretending to be a psychic

#83

Post by carlmr »

f137 wrote: post #80
1024core wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Let's say I believe in unicorns. Is it legal to then glue a horn on a horse and sell it to me as a "unicorn"?

If you look at it and pay for it, sure it's legal, no?

If you believe it's a unicorn, yes, otherwise it's fraud.

Re: A copywriter swindled victims out of $200M by pretending to be a psychic

#85

Post by vorpalhex »

qingcharles wrote: post #69
vorpalhex wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah but psychic readings are personal comissions, not mass marketable! I ordered a cat scratcher. Cat scratchers are perfectly commodity things.. but mine wasn't. I ordered a handmade one. What I got shipped was a repurchase from Wayfair. I sent a single picture of the box and got a full refund. Yes, I got a cat scratcher but the handmade part was a material term of the deal. Paying someone to do a psychic reading is…

Not sure if using cat scratcher as fictional example or actually ordered a handmade cat scratcher...

Oh, so my cats are all insanely big cats. I don't mean fat, I mean big. They knock over cat scratchers all the time (and then go on to scratch other things like furniture).

I also wanted a cat scratcher with a perch on top so my oldest can sit at the same height as the dining room table - he likes sitting near me at meals but I also don't want him on the table.

So yeah I needed a cat scratcher with a certain base size and a specific height and have no interest in a woodworking project. Instead I just wanted to pay $50 to have someone else make it.

(The other cat scratchers I buy are $70 a pop so really not a cost issue. At that point you get a cat scratcher that lasts 5+ years, looks nice and is big enough my cats will actually use it)

Re: A copywriter swindled victims out of $200M by pretending to be a psychic

#86

Post by qingcharles »

vorpalhex wrote: post #85
qingcharles wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if using cat scratcher as fictional example or actually ordered a handmade cat scratcher...

Oh, so my cats are all insanely big cats. I don't mean fat, I mean big. They knock over cat scratchers all the time (and then go on to scratch other things like furniture). I also wanted a cat scratcher with a perch on top so my oldest can sit at the same height as the dining room table - he likes sitting near me at meals but I also don't want him on the table. So yeah I needed a cat scratcher with a certain base siz…

Thank you for satisfying my curiosity. I totally understand. A lot of the pet products you buy in the big box stores are really cheap crap.

Re: A copywriter swindled victims out of $200M by pretending to be a psychic

#88

Post by evandale »

vorpalhex wrote: post #58
evandale wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has the ability to give you a psychic reading because psychic readings don't exist. I'm glad you brought up the paragraph of text because are literally buying a fictional paragraph. It can say anything and will still be a psychic reading. I'm struggling to understand how you can equate something that isn't real and something that's tangible.

I pay you to produce for me a drawing of a Blorgen. You think on this for a while and decide that instead of drawing a Blorgen, you are going to grab a random Google image and send it to me. That's fraud. But let's say you draw the Blorgen instead. What's a Blorgen? No idea. Maybe you draw a lizard person. Maybe it's an abstract piece. Even if you and I disagree on what a Blorgen is, the situation is no longer fraud.…

Blorgen is clearly an interpretation of something and a tangible piece of art.

Psychic predictions are never psychic predictions because psychic predictions don't exist.

Nobody in the universe can give you a psychic prediction.

Re: A copywriter swindled victims out of $200M by pretending to be a psychic

#89

Post by steve_taylor »

Narkov wrote: post #72
steve_taylor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> If you’re that stupid, you deserve to be swindled. Absolutely not. Laws should protect the vulnerable...no matter how stupid they are.

My point is that people are saying the fraudulent aspect of his crime is that he didn’t actually pray. It wouldn’t have made a difference to their lives. Churches swindle millions of people out of billions of dollars annually.
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