$10 (or $40) isn't enough for me to take you serious. Would you make a move on $10 stock advice?
Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
41–50 of 69 posts
Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
#42Why don't you give it away for free to people who sign up using your affiliate link for a poker room?
Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
#43Perhaps you can make an online free version and put some ads?
Given the small target audience, I don't think it would be worth it to convert it into a free web app. Anyone that wants to toy with it is welcomed to download the desktop app now anyway.
Poker players are pretty used to installing GUIs, so I don't think web-based would help. Every poker client is a GUI (and for good reason), as is Poker Tracker, Poker Stove, SNGWizard, etc.
I don't know if you're doing ICM calcs or what, but anything beyond a simple odds calculator should be a native app.
Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Were you aware of the existing (and immensely popular) free tools when you started programming? If so, what was going to be your edge?
I assume you're talking about PokerStove, no? I happily used it for a long time, but felt it could use some improvement. For example, you can't weigh the hands in your opponent's range (that is, saying KK is half as likely as AA). Also, PokerStove is great for calculating equity, but not so much for calculating EV. To calculate your EV when you call is pretty easy (EV = equity * new_pot - to_call), but to calculate y…
Was it just for cash games, or did you offer ICM calcs too?
Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
#45I'm guessing your problem is a miscalculation in target market. People will be either 1: Very good at poker. In which case they can go through this mental, odds-calculating process in their head without the need for software. or 2: Not very good at poker. In which case your software is immensely confusing. They need to be able to put opponents on a range of hands (how does a novice guess what an opponent most likely…
1) Wrong. Complex odds can't be calculated in your head. Even the math PhDs who do well at poker calculate EVs against a range of holdings with a computer.
For instance, if you can calculate your equity with T9s against a range of (AA-22, Ak-AT, A9s, KQ-KT, K9s, QJ-QTs)in your head, consider yourself a genius.
The type of software he built is very popular among people who are good at poker or trying to become so.
Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
#46Does "estimating your opponent's hands" have any value? If you could do that with any certainty you probably don't need a calculator. EDIT: I realize that estimating your opponent's hands is important. Basic poker there. I'm talking about "estimating your opponent's hands" which is featured in one of the calculator's screens. That seems like an iffy thing to feed into a computer. It's a garbage-in-garbage-out situati…
Estimating your opponent's hands I assume means guessing what range of holdings he would play that way. For instance, if I tight player raises under the gun, you can narrow down his hands to just a few.
It has immense value, in fact, it's the hardest part of the game. Figuring out what to do once you've estimated someone's hand is (with a little practice and the help of a good computer program) pretty easy.
The entire game is one big war to see who can estimate his opponents' hands the best, while preventing his opponents from doing the same to him.
Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
#47Why don't you give it away for free to people who sign up using your affiliate link for a poker room?
Hard to make any money that way. Most people who want this type of program already have accounts at the one or two sites worth playing at.
Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
#48$10 (or $40) isn't enough for me to take you serious. Would you make a move on $10 stock advice?
I would buy a $10 program that aided me in making stock picks if it were simply doing mathematical computations for me. This is more the equivalent of a program that computes PE and dividend ratios than one that says "Buy AAPL at $95". Except that dividend ratios can be computed trivially in your head, while equity against a range of holdings given certain chip stacks cannot.
Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
#49I wouldn't consider this a failure. Guessing that you don't want to run into legally shady territory (assuming you're in the US) and start an online gambling site, it's hard as hell to make money in anything related to games, especially public-domain card games. For example, I'd doubt that the designers of card games like FreeCell and Ambition ever made a cent off their inventions. I'll point this out, though: games…
You have no idea how wrong you are. There's a tremendous market for poker-related apps. It's an industry that rakes in at least hundreds of millions annually.
If I told you what I made off of this sort of thing in the pre-UIGEA days (and especially before Party spun off its skins sites) you'd shit your pants.
Top rakeback providers made 6 or maybe even low 7 figures per month at the pinnacle. The Poker Tracker guys have sold many thousands of copies at $50 a pop.
Games in general are the only thing monetizing well right now on Facebook and MySpace platforms too, and the #1 most profitable is almost certainly Zynga's Texas Hold'em.
Re: Lessons learned from a failed poker software business
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I assume you're talking about PokerStove, no? I happily used it for a long time, but felt it could use some improvement. For example, you can't weigh the hands in your opponent's range (that is, saying KK is half as likely as AA). Also, PokerStove is great for calculating equity, but not so much for calculating EV. To calculate your EV when you call is pretty easy (EV = equity * new_pot - to_call), but to calculate y…
Was it just for cash games, or did you offer ICM calcs too?
$cEV = $EV; no ICM calcs.