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Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#541

Post by anurag6892 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #209
HWR_14 wrote: post #22

The article ends: > [one customer] ultimately concluded there is nothing wrong with his car. The problem, he said, was that Tesla is overstating its performance As I read this, either his car was defective or he was lied to to convince him to make a $XX,000 purchase. It seems that Tesla should be facing some form of fraud-based lawsuit over the lies selling the car or treating it under warranty, right?

Most normal Tesla owners I'm familiar with just come to accept that the website range claim is complete horseshit. They go on with their lives and just don't worry about it. For around town, it'll get somewhat close to rated range anyway, and road trips aren't that common for most people. The supercharger network is pretty good, and if you have to stop every 200 miles instead of the rated 358, then so be it. Personal…

EPA should also add multiple range estimates say at 70mph, 80mph. Lots of people drive 80mph+ on the highway.

And buyers should be made aware they will be using only 70% (10 to 80) of the battery between highway charger stops. Charging gets really slow after 80%.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#542

Post by syndicatedjelly »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #411
rchaud wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. Gas cars have had their scandals and crises, I dont have to worry about the manufacturer juicing the fuel gauge for marketing purposes. I have been car-free for the past 12 years, but when it'll be time to move to the suburbs, I'll go with what works and is predictable.

... why would you move to the suburbs after tasting freedom?

Why would you remain in a city after living through a pandemic?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#543

Post by JohnFen »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #331
ke88y wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that reputation already died in the last 2-3 years. It's now pretty common in my circle to hear people say they'll pay a premium to not own a Tesla. Primarily because of lots of bad experiences with build quality/repairs, but also because there are now lots of high quality alternatives. Namely Rivian and Lucid, but also the legacy automakers (two friends bought mach-es recently and there's a smattering of F-1…

Do those people who say they will pay a premium to not own a Tesla already own a Tesla? Because all the people I know who own a Tesla say it's the best car they've every owned to the extent that they wouldn't consider any other car. Are they also in the market for an electric car? I said I would pay a premium not to own a Tesla, largely because of Musk. And then it came time to buy an EV: and there just isn't a vehic…

> Because all the people I know who own a Tesla say it's the best car they've every owned

I only know three people who own Teslas, but all three have little positive to say about them, and one of them will tell you at length about how he regrets buying his if you let him.

It's for that reason, not my dislike of Musk, that if I were in the market for an EV I wouldn't even consider a Tesla.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#544

Post by b112 »

mikestew wrote: post #20
b112 wrote: post #15

This is what small claims court is for. No lawyers. Cheap. Just a video of real range, the lies, get 20k or what not rebate due to the lies.

Last I checked, small claims court in more than one state tops out at well under $10K. Hence the adjective “small”. IOW, you ain’t getting $20K out of small claims court.

Huh, 25k where I am, but in Canuck bucks.

Still, even 10k is better than 0k. And many small claims courts forbit compelled discovery. I paid $100, had no lawyer, wrote 2 pages of "what happened", served the paperwork by hand (and went back to the court and gave an affidavit to that effect), and ...

The other side "big corp" had a law firm, and several lawyers. I paid $100 and spent a few hours. The paid 50k to their lawyers, and we just talked on front of a judge.

In terms of "stick em in the eye" it's the way to go.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#545

Post by Outright0133 »

shmatt wrote: post #377
rsynnott wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is standard Weird Sales Culture stuff, but it's a bit odd for customer support.

It's customer success except Elon is the customer

I see HN is still enjoying its two-minutes-hate now that Musk is officially Bad™.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#546

Post by LegitShady »

johntiger1 wrote: post #255
bumby wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They probably can get the right estimate for a destination because it knows the speed limit Even this is a massive over-simplification. Driving the same speed with a 20 mph headwind is going to take lot more energy than with a 20 mph tailwind for example. There's lots of other variables and they may be certainly tracking some (like A/C current draw) but I doubt they track others (like rolling friction or road condi…

Does all this somehow not apply to ICE vehicles? Cause the gas meter/range estimate was pretty accurate in my dad's '93 Corolla...

The mileage you and your dad got was probably pretty significantly different based on driving style, location etc. Just accelerating quickly off stops can end up having a noticeable effect on overall mileage. You were just willing to accept a much less accurate and imprecise number as “pretty accurate” and when the fuel went down too much you filled it anyways.

I’ve never driven a car to empty ever. I wouldn’t with a Tesla either.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#547

Post by Outright0133 »

edude03 wrote: post #145

I have an S so I'm biased but this feels like a hit piece. Range is of course always going to be an estimate. Marketing is always going to be a battle of who has the bigger number. Having people schedule an appointment to fix their "broken" cars that can only go 470 instead of 500km is of course going to be a waste of time and money. I'm part of a facebook group for tesla owners and literally every day this week ther…

[dead]

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#548

Post by mrguyorama »

anurag6892 wrote: post #536
bischofs wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a problem because a lot of what people use to shop an EV is the headline range number, which you are declaring is not accurate. This is false advertising.

Sure, but isn't it up to EPA to fix their testing methodology to get better estimates? Why do we expect car makers to do that?

If the EPA rating is consistent in it's overestimation, it would still be a perfectly functional system to comparison shop range. Putting that KNOWN overestimating number as the headline "range" estimation is wrong. My ICE car does not use the EPA combined estimate for my range because that would be inaccurate and make the number useless. The knowledge on how to build a useful "Range" value in a car has been constant since at least 2000, and yet Tesla, and ONLY tesla, seems to have it wrong. Meanwhile, as others tell, the navigation display shows a very accurate estimation, so why the disconnect? There's no requirement for a battery display showing the EPA range, they CHOSE to do that.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#549

Post by edude03 »

HWR_14 wrote: post #172
edude03 wrote: post #145

I have an S so I'm biased but this feels like a hit piece. Range is of course always going to be an estimate. Marketing is always going to be a battle of who has the bigger number. Having people schedule an appointment to fix their "broken" cars that can only go 470 instead of 500km is of course going to be a waste of time and money. I'm part of a facebook group for tesla owners and literally every day this week ther…

But the example from the article wasn't about a sub 1% delta. It was someone getting less than half the estimated ranged.

For sure, I was using an extreme example for my anecdote(s) but also how many people get 50% of their estimated range? This specific example might be someone with a bad battery that tesla is trying to sweep under the rug BUT the article positions this as it's basically everyone.

"This 1 guy gets 50% of the estimated range and the problem is so wide spread tesla started a team to address it!"

is really different from

"Many customers are surprised they get less range than it says on the site and for a very extreme example, one guy gets 50% less (under uncertain circumstances)"

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#550

Post by cudgy »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #474
cudgy wrote: post #450

“In March, Alexandre Ponsin set out on a family road trip from Colorado to California in his newly purchased Tesla, a used 2021 Model 3. He expected to get something close to the electric sport sedan’s advertised driving range: 353 miles on a fully charged battery. He soon realized he was sometimes getting less than half that much range, particularly in cold weather – such severe underperformance that he was convince…

> Driving through the Rocky mountains will reduce mpg significantly for an internal combustion engine as well. Do you mean it will reduce the mpg because of reduced air density, or because of temperature as well? I thought the efficiency of an ICE was dependent on the difference in temperature it creates between the combustion and the coldest part of the cycle. It seems efficiency would improve in cold temperatures b…

EV batteries are less efficient cold weather and hot weather too. Yes, ICE would be more efficient in cold due to cooler/more combustable air entering the combustion chamber as evidenced by the use of intercoolers in turbos to cool the hot compressed air from the turbo mechanism.
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