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It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

fredandrandall.com

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Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#51

Post by sheraz »

From the comments here, and in other similar posts, the HN community seems to think only one side of the interview process is broken.

I posit that all sides are broken -- yes -- the recruiters, the hiring companies, and YOU, the engineer/marketer/whatever you are.

I'm only going to address the one part that matters -- you.

Who cares how qualified you are? You think that entitles you to a job? Gimme a break!!! Do me a favor and put aside your naive and childish ideas about job entitlement...

The following is not prescriptive, but it works for me. The HUSTLE.

1. Skip the resumes and all formal methods of first contact. Scrape linkedin and other places to get an inside contact where you want to work.

2. Skip HR. They are only good for filing paperwork once you have a done deal.

3. Once you have a contact send a two line email asking for 15 minutes and a coffee. Be charming and funny. Don't sell yourself. Let your good looks and excellent hygiene speak for you.

4. Whatever your salary / hourly rate is, double it. Think perceived value.

5. Ask lots of questions.

Note -- this is nothing new. This is business as usual, and I love it. Networking is everything.

In case anyone here is wondering, yes -- I am a developer from time to time.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#52

Post by jerickson »

j_baker wrote: post #48
jerickson wrote: post #18

We often find that there are plenty of technically qualified people out there, but what you can do isn’t the only factor in hiring. The most important thing about hiring talent is finding talent that works well with your existing talent. In other words: finding a good CULTURE fit. There are LOTS of smart people out there, but only a small percentage of those people are sociable enough to really do an exceptional job…

Actually,I would argue that talented teams build products.

Of course, but that includes being talented at being part of a team ;)

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#53

Post by JailhouseRodeo »

I was checking out the interview questions people are posting on glassdoor.com and felt pretty stupid after going through them. I work at a successful startup at a pretty high level, and I could not tell you the best sort algorithm for some particular case. I could tell you how I would model it in a database, since that's really where large datasets get manipulated in my world. I wonder if the types of algorithm-heavy questions I see in interviews are there because these companies need that skillset, or is it to weed out people who aren't 'rockstar' or 'A Player' engineers. Sometimes it feels like a pissing contest to see who has the hardest interview. At my company, we give you a couple of real world coding tests, as long as you do ok, it's all about your personality and whether or not you seem cool to work with. It seems to work very well.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#54

Post by saryant »

RandallBrown wrote: post #22
spdy wrote: post #16

After reading some of the comments and the blog post it sounds to me everyone wants to hire like Google... but they are not Google. In the end when you want to hire, look at what they have done and ask them about that. In my opinion thats the only thing that counts. Solving quizes does not sound very important to me. If someone can walk you through his thought process on his favourite project you can see if he/she is…

The point of the article is that even Google shouldn't hire like Google. I really like the idea about asking about their favorite project though. That would have helped out a lot for me in my interviews I think.

I've started just pushing the interview in that direction regardless. Generally a question will come up that's relevant to a project I'm proud of and I'll pivot the conversation over there. I've also found that if I really frame my answer as a "teaser" the interviewer will be interested enough in it to ask a follow-up.

When I'm able to pull it off I've generally felt that I've left a better impression on my interviewer.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#55

Post by kdommeyer »

georgemcbay wrote: post #19

A big issue in modern hiring, IMO, is the combination of diverging specialized platforms and languages combined with overemphasis on keyword-hiring. When I first got into the industry you had: --- * old fogey LISP programmers * old fogey FORTRAN programmers * old fogey COBOL programmers * Assembly programmers * C/Win programmers * C/Unix programmers * C/Mac programmers * some people on the cutting edge looking at thi…

Why did you list Ruby/RoR users as developers but list everyone else as programmers? I'm learning RoR so I'm curious if there's a specific reason for your wording.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#56

Post by ef4 »

eshvk wrote: post #21

The other problem that I found annoying when interviewing (even with Startups) is the way the whole system is organized. 1. Talk to recruiter who is a non-tech person who doesn't really know what they are talking about and to whom you cannot really go in deep. This is the only casual conversation that you get to have about the company. (Assuming you don't know anyone there..) 2. Have phone screens which are that exac…

> I used to wish there was a way I could talk to an engineer in a company over coffee

There is. You offer to buy them coffee.

In practice, this is actually how much of business (and that includes hiring) gets done.

The whole "Send resume, pass phone screen, do interview, get offer" thing is more the exception than the rule, especially for really desirable jobs.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#57

Post by mechanical_fish »

darksaga wrote: post #15

As someone who just went through this, I had a similar experience. I was on contract through January. January comes around and I figure I'll have a gig no problem. As a front-end developer, I already had recruiters knocking down my door. A month later, I finally landed a gig. I had a few offers, but over the course of a month, I had more frustration with people I was interviewing. Three places I interviewed with were…

Your story sounds… normal? This is how interviewing works, especially if you know what you want. It's a two-way street. Most jobs are pretty lousy, and even the great ones often don't fit you. You need to interview them and figure out whether or not their job is worth taking, then turn it down and move on.

(This is especially true for folks who program Javascript in 2012. It's a field in enormous flux.)

In many fields, it's normal for interviewing to take months. They warned us grad students to expect to spend a minimum of three to six months looking for Ph.D.-level jobs, because you tend to be searching among a fairly small pool of employers who are looking for folks with specialized training very similar to yours.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#58

Post by randomdata »

lekus wrote: post #38
athst wrote: post #29

I like the point about how randomness seems to be such a big part of the process. If you're not using connections and are applying through normal channels, to me it seems like there is so much that can go wrong that isn't related to your ability to do the job. Maybe the recruiter had a bunch of email that day and missed the application. Maybe the person who screened your email didn't like the font or design of your r…

It will never improve until there is a "real" shortage in the market.

As far as I can tell, a real shortage is basically impossible.

I come from a farming background. On the farm, when the work has to be done, it has to be done. The crop will wither away and be worthless if you spend any time waiting. That often means hiring people who are not skilled to get the job done.

On a grain farm, at least, good help are worth their weight in gold. I see some farms offering $50/hr. just to find talent. But in the absence of those good people, you still need someone to do the work. That often means settling on someone who is unskilled for, say, $10/hr. You just end up hoping the reduced pay will offset the additional costs of employing them.

The technology sector is different. The constraints on time are completely artificial. If a really good programmer isn't available today, the project can wait until he is available next month. Unlike other industries, here there is simply no reason to hire the less skilled programmer, even at a reduced salary.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#59

Post by lekus »

randomdata wrote: post #58
lekus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will never improve until there is a "real" shortage in the market.

As far as I can tell, a real shortage is basically impossible. I come from a farming background. On the farm, when the work has to be done, it has to be done. The crop will wither away and be worthless if you spend any time waiting. That often means hiring people who are not skilled to get the job done. On a grain farm, at least, good help are worth their weight in gold. I see some farms offering $50/hr. just to find…

Try not able to hire any programmers and losing your existing programmers. Happened 12 years ago. Just get rid of the H-1B program and wait.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#60

Post by wyclif »

jnbiche wrote: post #3

This, exactly. I keep reading about this huge shortage of qualified developers, but I've now met enough talented developers looking for work -- who are reliable and talented, and not assholes, that I know that the standard line about a talent shortage can't be true. Perhaps it's an issue in and around the Valley, but it's not in most of the rest of the country. If you're having trouble hiring in the US outside of SF,…

"There's no shortage of smart, hardworking engineers. There's a shortage of smart, hardworking engineers willing to work for very little money." ~ David "Pardo" Keppel

If you're having trouble hiring, it's probably because you're not paying enough. It turns out that talented people are worth paying a lot for.

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