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This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

cnn.com

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Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#31

Post by ajkjk »

briantakita wrote: post #17

There were no precise instruments 120k years ago. The historical record used is a hodge podge of proxy data. Much modern temperature data was US centric. Also, there is controversy over the placement of temperature stations (e.g. on an urban heat island, next to an airport, near exhaust vents). Factors were added to temperature modesl (there were higher apples to apples temperature readings in the 1930s). Many region…

You must be aware that dismissing very-overtly-obvious climate claims out of hand makes you sound very dubious, right? Super "merchants-of-doubt"y.

The only way to deliver this opinion in a non-suspect way would be something like: "I'm aware that all metrics show it's the hottest month on record, and everyone is experiencing that everywhere, but ".

Like, it is obvious in the last fifty years. Your argument is "well maybe 200 years ago was hotter and we forgot". Who cares? People are worried about this because it is bad for humans, now.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#32

Post by esalman »

briantakita wrote: post #17

There were no precise instruments 120k years ago. The historical record used is a hodge podge of proxy data. Much modern temperature data was US centric. Also, there is controversy over the placement of temperature stations (e.g. on an urban heat island, next to an airport, near exhaust vents). Factors were added to temperature modesl (there were higher apples to apples temperature readings in the 1930s). Many region…

Scientists use tree rings, coral reefs and deep sea sediment cores to measure historical temperature from a long time ago. These methods are based on the principle that the growth and chemistry of these natural archives reflect the environmental conditions that they experienced. Tree rings show the annual variations in temperature and precipitation on land. Coral reefs show the sea surface temperature and salinity in tropical and subtropical regions. Deep sea sediment cores show the ocean circulation, productivity, and climate over millions of years. These methods are not perfect, and they have some limitations and uncertainties. Therefore, scientists need to use multiple methods and sources of data to cross-check and validate their results.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#33

Post by danudey »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #8
mistrial9 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

energy efficiency makes the same amount of power, go further. Look into reducing outdoor lighting, wasteful uses of electricity, and improving efficiency for heavy applications, you might find more than enough savings to handle dire, life-and-death situations.

The low-hanging fruit have mostly been picked by now, regulating demand-side is not a solution and will lead only to immiseration and state overreach. Unless you are fine with only flushing your toilet on Wednesdays, this is not a desirable future overall.

> regulating demand-side is not a solution

I think it's more accurate to say that consumer-side regulation is not a solution. I'm willing to bet there are tons of industries out there that can significantly reduce their energy usage, but it's either undesirable from a profit perspective or infeasible from a cost perspective.

That said, the "obvious" solution at this point seems to be larger supplies of non-carbon-releasing power generation (e.g. green or nuclear energy).

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#34

Post by polrb »

russdill wrote: post #23
briantakita wrote: post #17

There were no precise instruments 120k years ago. The historical record used is a hodge podge of proxy data. Much modern temperature data was US centric. Also, there is controversy over the placement of temperature stations (e.g. on an urban heat island, next to an airport, near exhaust vents). Factors were added to temperature modesl (there were higher apples to apples temperature readings in the 1930s). Many region…

Scientists and researchers in this area work very hard to not just account for heat island effect, but also a myriad of other effects. https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3071/the-r...

[dead]

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#35

Post by 23B1 »

danudey wrote: post #24
guerrilla wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were no nation-states at that time either. It's going to be a meatgrinder this time around.

And a lot less population density. People in low-lying areas aren't going to be able to move to higher ground, because someone else already owns that ground.

Why do you say low-lying areas? Do you mean like because of coastal/sea-level rise?

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#36

Post by briantakita »

ajkjk wrote: post #31
briantakita wrote: post #17

There were no precise instruments 120k years ago. The historical record used is a hodge podge of proxy data. Much modern temperature data was US centric. Also, there is controversy over the placement of temperature stations (e.g. on an urban heat island, next to an airport, near exhaust vents). Factors were added to temperature modesl (there were higher apples to apples temperature readings in the 1930s). Many region…

You must be aware that dismissing very-overtly-obvious climate claims out of hand makes you sound very dubious, right? Super "merchants-of-doubt"y. The only way to deliver this opinion in a non-suspect way would be something like: "I'm aware that all metrics show it's the hottest month on record, and everyone is experiencing that everywhere, but ". Like, it is obvious in the last fifty years. Your argument is "well m…

The climate always changes. Always has & always will. No political movement, economic paradigm, or technology will make the climate static. The geomagnetic field fluctuations, Sun, the solar system's current cosmological coordinates, cosmological effects are too big of a driver of the climate.

Geologically speaking, we have just left a mini-ice age. Our efforts are better invested in adjusting to these inevitable changes.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#37

Post by polrb »

explaininjs wrote: post #30
russdill wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scientists and researchers in this area work very hard to not just account for heat island effect, but also a myriad of other effects. https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3071/the-r...

“Scientists” aren’t a single unit. Some of them are responsible in their methodology, others get endless news coverage for their alarmism.

[dead]

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#38

Post by Zambyte »

danudey wrote: post #24
guerrilla wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were no nation-states at that time either. It's going to be a meatgrinder this time around.

And a lot less population density. People in low-lying areas aren't going to be able to move to higher ground, because someone else already owns that ground.

And people think that ground can be owned now

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#39

Post by ajkjk »

briantakita wrote: post #36
ajkjk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be aware that dismissing very-overtly-obvious climate claims out of hand makes you sound very dubious, right? Super "merchants-of-doubt"y. The only way to deliver this opinion in a non-suspect way would be something like: "I'm aware that all metrics show it's the hottest month on record, and everyone is experiencing that everywhere, but ". Like, it is obvious in the last fifty years. Your argument is "well m…

The climate always changes. Always has & always will. No political movement, economic paradigm, or technology will make the climate static. The geomagnetic field fluctuations, Sun, the solar system's current cosmological coordinates, cosmological effects are too big of a driver of the climate. Geologically speaking, we have just left a mini-ice age. Our efforts are better invested in adjusting to these inevitable cha…

Who cares? if everyone dies and you say "well it always changes" the answer is still "...and we could have done something about it and we didn't do enough."

It has no bearing if it changed in the past if we can do something about it not killing most (non-rich) people in the future.

Well it was one bearing if it was like this in the past: it gives people a convenient argument for dismissing it now. So if your goal is "definitely let's make sure we don't handle this well", then at least, if you're right, you can justify that. Pretty pointless, though, unless your goal is destruction.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#40

Post by guerrilla »

echelon wrote: post #29
guerrilla wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were no nation-states at that time either. It's going to be a meatgrinder this time around.

Several nation-states will be huge beneficiaries of a hotter world. Russia's tundra becomes arable land, and their fossil fuels become more accessible. Their navy will be able to freely roam the seas when the polar ice caps melt. Canada will receive the same benefits - enormous access to fresh water, ease of navigation, and agriculturally ideal conditions. Greenland will have an increasingly large stake in geopolitic…

Obviously, but you missed the point. The problem is competetion by increased polarity between the haves and have-nots. The latter aren't just going to roll over and die. They're going to go to war to survive because there's nothing to lose in not doing so and everything to gain.
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