Live data from Hacker News

It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

fredandrandall.com

21–30 of 163 posts

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#21
The other problem that I found annoying when interviewing (even with Startups) is the way the whole system is organized.

1. Talk to recruiter who is a non-tech person who doesn't really know what they are talking about and to whom you cannot really go in deep. This is the only casual conversation that you get to have about the company. (Assuming you don't know anyone there..)

2. Have phone screens which are that exactly: Ways for the company to give you a few puzzles and determine whether you based on whether you follow a certain process of solving them are actually good enough to join them. At the end of this, you are asked if you have any questions for them. In a big company, this person might not even ever work with the team that you are interviewing for. There is a good chance that after a grilling interview, you are tired and can't really have an actual conversation.

3. You have interviews at their office which again are designed to grill the candidate and don't offer any time for the candidate to get to know the people on a personal level.

I used to wish there was a way I could talk to an engineer in a company over coffee (and I am not talking about the whole lunch interview thing that a lot of companies do) and figure out what they actually do, what they want in a candidate and what sort of skill sets that they are looking for. Over the past few months, I have come to the realization that I am not sure many companies actually know the answer to that and all they are trying to do is to get the "best" without actually properly defining what that even means.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#22
post #16

After reading some of the comments and the blog post it sounds to me everyone wants to hire like Google... but they are not Google. In the end when you want to hire, look at what they have done and ask them about that. In my opinion thats the only thing that counts. Solving quizes does not sound very important to me. If someone can walk you through his thought process on his favourite project you can see if he/she is…

The point of the article is that even Google shouldn't hire like Google.

I really like the idea about asking about their favorite project though. That would have helped out a lot for me in my interviews I think.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#23
post #20

There's a misconception that anyone can hire. Tech companies are outsourcing their IT to heroku and AWS because programmers can't sys-admin. They hire lawyers and accountants to take care of legal and financial matter. But hiring? "I can do that" they think. Worse, it isn't a process they try to improve. They don't try alternative approaches nor do they refine their process through small iterations. They have a belie…

"There's a misconception that anyone can hire. Tech companies are outsourcing their IT to heroku and AWS because programmers can't sys-admin. They hire lawyers and accountants to take care of legal and financial matter. But hiring? "I can do that" they think."

In their semi-defense, they probably can do it at least as well as the vast majority of supposedly specialized technical recruitment firms, who are also largely a joke (yes, there are a few exceptions that prove the rule).

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#24
From the other side of the desk, what I am most afraid of is letting someone with weak coding or technical chops through the door. It destroys teams.

Yes, culture fit is important as is someone who really likes to program and build. You get to that after you've established that the person can code.

I'm not talking about the google "how many jelly beans in a bus" thing either. I'm talking "what is an inner join", "what will this loop output". Basic. Stuff. 9 out of 10 can't do it. Until you establish that you can, the odds say you can not.

As someone hiring, someone about to put my money in your pocket in exchange for the skills you bring, I've got to be sure the ROI is there.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#27

A big issue in modern hiring, IMO, is the combination of diverging specialized platforms and languages combined with overemphasis on keyword-hiring. When I first got into the industry you had: --- * old fogey LISP programmers * old fogey FORTRAN programmers * old fogey COBOL programmers * Assembly programmers * C/Win programmers * C/Unix programmers * C/Mac programmers * some people on the cutting edge looking at thi…

I agree completely. This is especially true when the KEYWORD-HEAVY-SPECIFIC-TECH is something that isn't easy for a programmer to gain meaningful experience in outside of work, like cloud computing, distributed software, or MapReduce architectures.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#28
post #20

There's a misconception that anyone can hire. Tech companies are outsourcing their IT to heroku and AWS because programmers can't sys-admin. They hire lawyers and accountants to take care of legal and financial matter. But hiring? "I can do that" they think. Worse, it isn't a process they try to improve. They don't try alternative approaches nor do they refine their process through small iterations. They have a belie…

"There's a misconception that anyone can hire. Tech companies are outsourcing their IT to heroku and AWS because programmers can't sys-admin. They hire lawyers and accountants to take care of legal and financial matter. But hiring? "I can do that" they think." In their semi-defense, they probably can do it at least as well as the vast majority of supposedly specialized technical recruitment firms, who are also largel…

Good point. I didn't mean for the alternative to be using recruiters, but rather simply recognizing that you probably aren't good at hiring, and thus should continuously be looking at improving your process.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#29
I like the point about how randomness seems to be such a big part of the process. If you're not using connections and are applying through normal channels, to me it seems like there is so much that can go wrong that isn't related to your ability to do the job. Maybe the recruiter had a bunch of email that day and missed the application. Maybe the person who screened your email didn't like the font or design of your resume.

To me, one of the big problems in the process is the lack of a feedback loop. Since recruiters and interviewers rarely give honest feedback (probably for good reason), it is hard for an applicant to know if they're applying to the right jobs or not. And faced with this lack of information that would otherwise allow you to be more effective and only apply to a few jobs that would be a good fit, the strategy becomes just spamming your resume everywhere until you get a response. On the company's end, this means that you have this extra mass of applications of wildly varying quality because no one has a clue what you're really looking for.

How could this feedback loop be improved? I'm not sure.

Re: It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem

#30
post #24

From the other side of the desk, what I am most afraid of is letting someone with weak coding or technical chops through the door. It destroys teams. Yes, culture fit is important as is someone who really likes to program and build. You get to that after you've established that the person can code. I'm not talking about the google "how many jelly beans in a bus" thing either. I'm talking "what is an inner join", "wha…

Why not give everyone a simple test, but give A LOT of people a simple test (which SELECT statement is an inner join...)?

What I always here is that 90% can't write a for-loop or a basic regular expression, but look great on paper, and vice versa.

EDIT: Recruiters are probably too stupid (usually) to be able to either administer or evaluate such tests and so will always be more interested in the "crisper" resume which belongs to some MBA doofus.

Post reply on HN