Live data from Hacker News

Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

331–340 of 769 posts

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#331
post #32

That's a pretty damning article and it looks like there are more and more of those coming. Tesla still somehow benefits from its innovators / clean company reputation, but at this pace it won't be long before agencies start to act on what's become much more than just 'optimistic marketing'.

I think that reputation already died in the last 2-3 years. It's now pretty common in my circle to hear people say they'll pay a premium to not own a Tesla. Primarily because of lots of bad experiences with build quality/repairs, but also because there are now lots of high quality alternatives. Namely Rivian and Lucid, but also the legacy automakers (two friends bought mach-es recently and there's a smattering of F-1…

Do those people who say they will pay a premium to not own a Tesla already own a Tesla? Because all the people I know who own a Tesla say it's the best car they've every owned to the extent that they wouldn't consider any other car.

Are they also in the market for an electric car? I said I would pay a premium not to own a Tesla, largely because of Musk. And then it came time to buy an EV: and there just isn't a vehicle under $100,000 that performs better under 100mph. And range? The Kia EV6 GT, which costs $5k more than the Model 3 Performance (or $12,500 because it doesn't qualify for the tax credit), is slower 0-60, has only 200 mile range. The Model 3 could have 26% lower range than advertised and still have 10% more range. So .5 second faster 0-60, 10% longer range, for $12,500 less.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#332
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery meter at the top is EPA range - ie. the official range measurement method, in basically ideal conditions. The routefinder 'learns' from your previous driving habits. Driving style easily has a 50% impact on range between "drives 50 mph slipstreaming behind a truck" and "drives 90 mph and brakes aggressively at every corner".

It really does not learn. I have driven the same route to and from Richmond, VA as a range test over and over again since 2018. My range is approx. 180 miles, in favorable conditions (summer, AC off). If it was actually accurate, as soon as you hit 70-80mph you would see your range half. Clearly that doesn't happen, so the estimator is off by ~40% for highway conditions, i.e. complete bullshit.

Yeah I think that Tesla of all the EV makers uses the most optimistic EPA range for ads and display.

I got 260mi range max on my 310mi rated car. If it was winter or a road trip in which I could truly go fast, it easily got below 200mi.

For a 310mi car, going to visit my parents or in-laws only 75mi away for Christmas should not have made me worry about making the round trip on one charge, but it frequently drained the battery below 20 or even 10%.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#333
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> able to get a tow truck capable of transporting my car (turns out you need one that has a full bed because of the regenerative breaking Sounds incredibly short-sighted that the regenerative braking can't be temporarily disabled by the driver... two people can push a "regular" car to a nearby gas station in a pinch. Even one person can push a smaller car around a parking lot if necessary. That said, they often send…

Tesla cars are way heavier. Nobody is pushing one with their friend. Unless it's downhill.

> Unless it's downhill.

Wouldn't that be ok since the parent's root problem was no cell-phone signal?

Edit: of course walking is an option too :-)

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#334

I have an S so I'm biased but this feels like a hit piece. Range is of course always going to be an estimate. Marketing is always going to be a battle of who has the bigger number. Having people schedule an appointment to fix their "broken" cars that can only go 470 instead of 500km is of course going to be a waste of time and money. I'm part of a facebook group for tesla owners and literally every day this week ther…

Literally the first paragraph of the piece: > He expected to get something close to the electric sport sedan’s advertised driving range: 353 miles on a fully charged battery. > He soon realized he was sometimes getting less than half that much range We’re not talking about a couple of miles here or there. And if Tesla discovered that range issues (even if entirely based around customer perception) were a widespread e…

I'd have to see more to believe that people are seriously getting less than half the estimated range. Not one person "sometimes" having an issue. (Moot point anyway cause I'm probably never gonna buy a Tesla.)

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really is an extreme and specific example, but risks like this are why most people want lots ( lots ) of range and why gas/diesel cars won't die out any time soon. The sheer ease of mind that comes with having densely packed energy that can be replenished at a moment's notice practically anywhere should not be disregarded easily. Maybe battery tech can get there some day, but it's certainly not today.

I got an i3 with a range extender and a 2 gallon gas tank. The gas tank range can't exceed the battery range and still be an EV. I use the battery almost all the time but knowing I can gas and go 80 miles is great. I drove 1,400 miles to Florida and back. It wasn't noticeably worse experience than an ICE.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-to-hack-a-bmw-i3-for...

Your car probably has a 2.4 gallon tank, but it's been electronically limited to 1.9 gallons.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#336
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watc…

> able to get a tow truck capable of transporting my car (turns out you need one that has a full bed because of the regenerative breaking Sounds incredibly short-sighted that the regenerative braking can't be temporarily disabled by the driver... two people can push a "regular" car to a nearby gas station in a pinch. Even one person can push a smaller car around a parking lot if necessary. That said, they often send…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider yourself lucky. Off the top of my head both Ford and Subaru were subject to lawsuits about vehicles not meeting EPA range expectations. When I had an outback I was very lucky to get 17MPG and the EPA range on the window sticker was 27 which felt really deceptive.

27 hwy? My 2013 STI gets like 23/19 on a good day and requires 93 oct or higher. oof! My fuel efficiency is horrid and advertised to be horrid.

I’m surprised you’re getting such good economy. I was getting 13mpg in my 2013 in stop and go traffic. Which is all I drove in at the time, and a contributing factor in selling it.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#338

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watc…

>> (turns out you need one that has a full bed because of the regenerative breaking, and tesla’s service doesn’t have infinite coverage)

Is there a service for "On demand battery charging". A mini truck carrying a generator that can be called to the location. Could charge premium from the EVs that are too tired to move.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regen braking is not 100% efficient, closer to 70-80%. So climbing a mountain and then going down the other side does cost more net energy than driving the same distance on flat ground. Also if the elevation change is such that you don’t have enough to get to the top, the amount you would regen on the way down doesn’t matter.

This isn't a question of regen braking through. > climbing a mountain and then going down the other side does cost more net energy than driving the same distance on flat ground. You say this, but your reasoning is regen braking? What if you never had to brake the entire way? Where did all the energy going going up the hill go? If I carry a sack of sand up a hill and drop it, the amount of energy it has falling is equ…

Without any resistance or breaking you are correct, but in real life you do have to break. Non constant speed also makes it worse because resistance is not linear.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#340
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the first paragraph of the piece: > He expected to get something close to the electric sport sedan’s advertised driving range: 353 miles on a fully charged battery. > He soon realized he was sometimes getting less than half that much range We’re not talking about a couple of miles here or there. And if Tesla discovered that range issues (even if entirely based around customer perception) were a widespread e…

If the predicted range occasionally decreases by 3km after driving 1km, well, that's the nature of battery discharge models. It's fine. If the predicted range ALWAYS decreases by 3km after driving 1km, then the prediction is bs.

In statistical terminology, I would prefer an "unbiased estimator with low skewness", such that it's as likely to overestimate as underestimate, even if occasionally the estimates are quite far off.

But as discussed, manufacturers of course have a strong incentive to make these predictions very biased to overestimate the range.

Post reply on HN