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Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#301

Post by JohnFen »

malwrar wrote: post #158
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watc…

> it was pretty hot and we had no water.

Another take-home lesson: if you're driving out of range of civilization, carry water along with your first aid supplies.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#302

Post by bumby »

yafbum wrote: post #275
malwrar wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watc…

Tbh though, going up a mountain is insanely more energy consuming than regular driving, so the range indicator can't possibly take this into consideration ahead of time unless you chart a specific trip. In the other direction, I've had the experience of the battery charge level continuously increasing while going down a long mountain road - infinite range!

According to TSLA, it takes into account elevation though...

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#303

Post by whelp_24 »

everdrive wrote: post #112

This really shouldn’t be read as a defense of EV companies, but I think there is just a learning curve for EVs which people really haven’t grappled with yet. Here is a minor list of things which will reduce range pretty significantly: - Driving over 50 MPH - Using the AC - Using the heat - Driving in extreme cold or extreme heat - Driving in an area with a lot of hills. (From what I can tell regenerative braking make…

Actually, gas cars have the best range on highways because the engine can stay at peak efficiency, electric cars are best in the city because they only use energy when moving and can recover energy from slowing (i.e. stop and go). And others mentioned that heating is free in gas cars (in fact it might improve your cooling and thus efficiency).

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#304

Post by aimor »

radlad wrote: post #166
dietsche wrote: post #160

As a Tesla owner, I think the source of the confusion is the EPA range displayed in the HUD on the Tesla. We toggled ours to show the battery percentage, which is much more useful to us. We've never owned a gas vehicle that met it's EPA range and the Tesla is no different. No one takes EPA MPG * GALLONS of gas and expects it to be a real life estimate of range. Wind resistance increases EXPONENTIALLY with speed. Driv…

> We've never owned a gas vehicle that met it's EPA range and the Tesla is no different. No one takes EPA MPG * GALLONS of gas and expects it to be a real life estimate of range. Why is this exactly? It's been true - MPG is lower than estimated - of every vehicle I've owned too except for my most recent, a '23 MX-5 (i.e. a sports car, which I tend to drive at higher RPMs and in lower gears.) I'm getting spot-on or a…

There's an EPA website for this.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/browseList.jsp

I have a 10 year old Mazda 3 and the MPG estimate is on target: 32 combined 28 city 39 highway estimate and I get 36 mpg. User average is 35.2.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#305

Post by lldb »

pjc50 wrote: post #250
malwrar wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watc…

> slow is fast, keep it at 60 if you want the milage meter to not die as quick This also works in petrol cars: the air resistance efficiency falloff is dramatic at higher speeds.

However, ICE is more efficient at higher free speeds unlike electric so there’s a higher sweet spot.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#306

Post by martin8412 »

aoweijrti wrote: post #287
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

I make EVs at a different company, and I'm not a fan of Tesla's range indicator. It's misleading because miles don't map directly onto battery charge. The range that that indicates is miles on flat level ground with no wind at 55mph which you will never experience in real life. At 80mph you're going to get 2/3 of that range every time. At 35mph you can get significantly higher range, but no one is ever going to drive…

My PHEV VW car shows range which is estimated based on the petrol level and the battery charge. I learned this the hard way because I noticed my petrol tank was very very close to empty driving on the motorway. I simply engaged fully electric mode, which turns off the petrol engine, and that way made it to the fueling station.

It sort of learns based on the immediately previous drive what the driving style is, and therefore what the range is.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#307

Post by sowbug »

berkes wrote: post #263
Dalewyn wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really is an extreme and specific example, but risks like this are why most people want lots ( lots ) of range and why gas/diesel cars won't die out any time soon. The sheer ease of mind that comes with having densely packed energy that can be replenished at a moment's notice practically anywhere should not be disregarded easily. Maybe battery tech can get there some day, but it's certainly not today.

Why can't battery tech achieve this? I have a very old petrol car (>35y) with a terrible fuel-indicator. I bring a spare 5L tank with petrol under the backseat always. An EV could achieve the same with a small portable powerbank, not? My current tank can hold some 50+L; this gives my old T3 a range of ~430km¹. When we lived in Botswana ('83, other car) we had an extra 150L spare fuel-tank instead of back-seats. We co…

That's just a UI trick, isn't it? Make 5% display as 0%, and add a solemn-looking toggle switch to select the reserve battery.

(According to a random source on the web, a Model Y battery weighs 1,770 pounds, so a perfectly efficient 5%-size physical battery would add another 88 pounds to the cargo.)

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#308

Post by steveBK123 »

cevn wrote: post #134
syntaxing wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not defending Tesla but battery range is really hard without context. Kinetic energy is velocity^2, which means moving twice the speed takes 4X the energy. They probably can get the right estimate for a destination because it knows the speed limit for the route and using that as your velocity can give you a better answer.

They could, but they don’t. Edit: someone else pointed out if you actually navigate then it will show remaining % more accurately. Still seems like false advertising..

Having owned a Tesla and non-Tesla EV the approach to range is entirely different.

Tesla - I literally never achieved the advertised range once. BMW - I exceed the advertised range during low-speed highway cruises in ideal summer conditions.

Tesla - the range it shows me in car (not in nav) is the never-achievable EPA range. BMW - the range it shows me in car (not in nav) adjusts ride to ride based on efficiency on most recent trips. So in the depths of winter it's showing me something 20% lower than in the peak of summer. This means it's factoring in driver behavior, drive mode used, speed, and temperature effectively.

It is reasonable to assume that your range on a trip is most similar to the range in your recent trips.

I can get in my BMW, look at the range meter, guesstimate the range on arrival and be correct to within 1% 9 times out of 10.

In my Tesla, I would constantly be doing mental math to discount the range it was showing me, to what I typically got, the weather, to see how big a delta it would be.

Sure, the nav range in Tesla got smarter over time and factored things in.. but this doesn't help on long round trips. It might tell me that I'm going to reach my destination with X% left, but I now have to do mental math to figure out if I am going to make it back or not.

With Tesla, I can't simply get in the car, see 300mi range on dash.. know I am making a trip 100mi each way so I'll be fine. Instead it's like - 300mi range, NAV says I'll have 58% remaining at destination.. OK so that means it's estimating X burn rate, which means I will make it home with... 17% instead of 33%.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#309

Post by pilingual »

Lendal wrote: post #201
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

While there are things to hate on with Tesla cars, range is not one of them. I have a Model Y and for the most part I like it. I plug it in when it needs charging. What's so hard about that? I've been on several 6000+ mile journeys across the country and never had a problem, even out west where charging is more sparse. The thing I hate most about my car is that I spent $10K on "Full Self Driving" and rarely use it. I…

What was your thought process when you spent $10,000 on "FSD?"

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#310

Post by philistine »

jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

Shenanigans like that is how you end up with regulations on what car can display in terms of range. This is similar to how we ended up with strict rules on MPG when purchasing.
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