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Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#211

Post by berkle4455 »

radlad wrote: post #166
dietsche wrote: post #160

As a Tesla owner, I think the source of the confusion is the EPA range displayed in the HUD on the Tesla. We toggled ours to show the battery percentage, which is much more useful to us. We've never owned a gas vehicle that met it's EPA range and the Tesla is no different. No one takes EPA MPG * GALLONS of gas and expects it to be a real life estimate of range. Wind resistance increases EXPONENTIALLY with speed. Driv…

> We've never owned a gas vehicle that met it's EPA range and the Tesla is no different. No one takes EPA MPG * GALLONS of gas and expects it to be a real life estimate of range. Why is this exactly? It's been true - MPG is lower than estimated - of every vehicle I've owned too except for my most recent, a '23 MX-5 (i.e. a sports car, which I tend to drive at higher RPMs and in lower gears.) I'm getting spot-on or a…

I think the EPA estimate for highway is based upon a totally flat windless road at 55 mph

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#212

Post by eatporktoo »

I'm surprised by the reaction to this article.

1. The range is set by the EPA. They are the ones that do the testing and validate the claims. The EPA should fix their range guidelines for EVs. Maybe a summer and winter range would be more appropriate?

2. Tesla should have a better UI for range, but really they should just show the percentage. Acting like it is a conspiracy is a bit extreme. They are just doing EPA Range * SOC. Without knowing all of the variables of a drive, the estimated range is going to be wrong no matter what you do. People think that their way of being wrong is better than Tesla's. Maybe they're right but the best estimate is still when navigating to a destination, and this estimate Tesla does quite well.

3. Tesla is cancelling the service appointments because there is nothing they can do to "fix" it. So why waste the time with a service appointment? They are just going to run the same diagnostics they ran remotely. Their software does a fantastic job explaining where your range is going. (https://www.teslaoracle.com/2022/09/26/tesla-new-energy-cons...)

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#213

Post by samwillis »

jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

The solution is to not show miles on the basic battery meter, just percentage. Maybe show a rage next to it - 130-160 miles. But that too honest.

ICE cars all show a percentage, and maybe additionally a mileage on newer cars. The fact that they threw that away is a little silly.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#214

Post by tehwebguy »

jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

We rented one on a trip recently, super annoying to realize the dozen or so chargers in this beach town were actually incompatible or just too slow for real life.

On the way back to the drop off autopilot tried to slam us into the Bentley next us! It had been traveling the same direction as us for like 20 minutes and when we passed through an intersection it just jerked hard left and I had to correct it manually. Possible injuries notwithstanding I’m sure that would have surpassed my insurance coverage, which I’ve intentionally gone way above minimums on.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#215

Post by brazzledazzle »

tekla wrote: post #186
cevn wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use navigation, almost ever, after the first place I go somewhere. Therefore, the main battery estimator is just wrong. If it actually worked, as soon as you got to highway speeds you would see it half. Hiding the real estimation behind the navigation tool is cowardly

How is that any different from a ICE car? How is the car supposed to know how much energy you might be using in the future? Last time I checked, no ICE car has the ability to predict the future.

The distance left in the tank is closer to the Tesla's more accurate estimate because it's constantly adjusting based on both your current gas level as well as your current energy efficiency. It may not accurately convey the distance available at the start of a trip but you're going to know well ahead of time if you're burn rate is too high. If the non-navigation distance estimate in a Tesla is always padded you could find out well after it's too late to make it to your destination or a charging station.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#216

Post by iamleppert »

dietsche wrote: post #160

As a Tesla owner, I think the source of the confusion is the EPA range displayed in the HUD on the Tesla. We toggled ours to show the battery percentage, which is much more useful to us. We've never owned a gas vehicle that met it's EPA range and the Tesla is no different. No one takes EPA MPG * GALLONS of gas and expects it to be a real life estimate of range. Wind resistance increases EXPONENTIALLY with speed. Driv…

I drove a Tesla for over a month and it was a relief to go back to my Honda Civic. The range (both miles and %) was wildly inaccurate. If I had to drive anywhere that wasn’t a few miles within the city, I was under constant anxiety. No thank you.

It’s a wonder to me that anyone would ever trust anything Elon Musk ever says about anything. He’s a proven liar and creates an openly hostile, negative culture wherever he goes. I feel sorry for people who are caught up in his lies, either customers or employees or people who work closely with him and have to suffer his tantrums. There was a point I admired him, but that is long past.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#217

Post by [deleted] »

berkle4455 wrote: post #211
radlad wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've never owned a gas vehicle that met it's EPA range and the Tesla is no different. No one takes EPA MPG * GALLONS of gas and expects it to be a real life estimate of range. Why is this exactly? It's been true - MPG is lower than estimated - of every vehicle I've owned too except for my most recent, a '23 MX-5 (i.e. a sports car, which I tend to drive at higher RPMs and in lower gears.) I'm getting spot-on or a…

I think the EPA estimate for highway is based upon a totally flat windless road at 55 mph

[deleted]

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#218

Post by [deleted] »

tekla wrote: post #186
cevn wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use navigation, almost ever, after the first place I go somewhere. Therefore, the main battery estimator is just wrong. If it actually worked, as soon as you got to highway speeds you would see it half. Hiding the real estimation behind the navigation tool is cowardly

How is that any different from a ICE car? How is the car supposed to know how much energy you might be using in the future? Last time I checked, no ICE car has the ability to predict the future.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#219

Post by KingOfCoders »

jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

"I hate almost everything about it."

Not owning a car only using rentals, I still think Tesla has the best and most intuitive UI. I can find everything easily, whereas in a SUVs from Skoda/VW/Audi/BMW/Renault/... it's hard to find things - at least for me.

What I do hate about the Model Ys we rented is the noise! Wind/wheel noise is as loud at 100km/h as a BMW at 150km/h - I guess they do this to safe weight and increase range, but it makes the trips very unpleasant.

Also how it randomly breaks in self driving (at least on a German Autobahn).

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#220

Post by indymike »

My wife's car broke down, and she took my Subaru for the week, so I ended up with a Chevy Bolt. It wasn't a Tesla, but it was an eye opener for me. Cost per mile was about the same as the Subaru, and the Subaru was a bigger car. Charging was slow and inconvenient. Range? Was really hard to predict in the Bolt because how you drive the vehicle has a big effect on what you get. I was really disappointed in the whole EV thing.
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