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Tarsnap outage postmortem

mail.tarsnap.com

81–90 of 338 posts

Re: Tarsnap outage postmortem

#81
post #68

[flagged]

> This post-mortem just lists mistake after mistake, but gives no indication as to what the maintainer will do to prevent this in the future.

Each to their own - I myself wouldn't expect that from a comprehensive "what didn't go smoothly" list such as this.

Clearly Colin is aware of every point listed and no doubt is already mentally dot pointing procedural changes and additional guard rails to ease recovery in future outages and to ensure no data is lost (which appears to be the primary goal here).

Re: Tarsnap outage postmortem

#82
post #68

[flagged]

There are multiple comments in the post-mortem about what should - in hindsight - have been done instead and I think it's fair to expect that those things -will- get done reasonably soon.

Pretty much all ops problems come down to the interaction of multiple mistakes that hadn't previously been an issue - GCP and AWS post-mortems tend to show exactly that, although usually with somewhat less detail.

So I'd expect that any equivalent service has a similar number of gremlins hiding in their infrastructure and procedures, and I'd suggest to anybody reading this that a 43 minute old account that was created just to post the comment I'm replying to is perhaps not the most reliable judge of competency or otherwise on the part of M. Percival.

Re: Tarsnap outage postmortem

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a remote service that keeps backup readonly. You’re not covering attack scenarios if you just use raw object storage from your client machine. I have written about this some time ago if you’re interested: https://www.franzoni.eu/ransomware-resistant-backups/

I'd classify that under "ease of use" - you can do it with S3 yourself (your post is a pretty good explanation of the how, from a quick skim), or you can just use tarsnap and not worry about it.

You can see from my post that doing that _properly_ is quite convoluted and requires a good deal of technical skills.

So it's not just ease of use. It's actual _functionality_ to me - getting from raw object storage to a fully working, attack-resistant backup strategy, is not trivial; hence, comparing tarsnap (or rsync.net, or borgbase, or whatever) to B2 or S3 makes little to no sense.

You _could_ compare it to crashplan or backblaze personal backup if you like, but IIRC those don't work for *nix systems, only for Win and Mac.

Re: Tarsnap outage postmortem

#84
post #29

Aren't these storage prices absurd? Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding.

It's insane. Not sure how anyone can accept such a rip off pricing. Tarsnap : $0.25 / GB storage, $0.25 / GB bandwidth cost rsync.net : $0.015 / GB storage, no bandwidth cost s3 : $0.023 / GB storage, some complicated bandwidth pricing If tarsnap is built on top of s3, they're charging 10 times for the storage cost. Easy money from the uninformed?

>Easy money from the uninformed?

I don't think so. Anyone who can use this software I'm sure knows what other options exist.

Re: Tarsnap outage postmortem

#85
> The second step failed almost immediately, with an error telling me that a replayed log entry was recording data belonging to a machine which didn't exist. This provoked some head-scratching until I realized that this was introduced by some code I wrote in 2014: Occasionally Tarsnap users need to move a machine between accounts, and I handle this storing a new "machine registration" log entry and deleting the previous one

Recommend writing a TLA+ model to catch stuff like this

Re: Tarsnap outage postmortem

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, people have been saying they should "charge more" for over a decade

Can you not be snide and please help me understand? It seems 50 times more expensive than B2. I'm genuinely curious about the product.

Roughly: The number of hours of my time that would be required to get something with even theoretically equivalent features would be sufficient to make the cost - and opportunity cost - involved seem far more reasonable.

Plus "written by cperciva and heavily battle tested by Serious Sysadmins" is a feature I couldn't recreate myself - notice that while there was an outage, part of the reason for it taking a while was a conscious choice to take a much longer path to resolution than bringing up the previous server in the name of paranoia. Paranoia about data corruption is a nice thing to have in a backup system and something I'm happily willing to trade-off uptime for.

However: For backups of bulk data then, yes, it's going to be relatively expensive. I wouldn't put e.g. my media backups on tarsnap, but "use tarsnap for your git repositories and other high value data, and something else for the rest" is both perfectly doable and an approach I suspect cperciva himself would endorse.

Re: Tarsnap outage postmortem

#87

Aren't these storage prices absurd? Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding.

The prices are absurdly high if your use-case is storage of large volumes of data that regularly change. It wouldn't be sensible to use Tarsnap for that, and you probably want to use one of the bulk backup services instead. Tarsnap makes a lot of sense when you benefit from the encryption and (especially) de-duplication features that it offers. For me, all of my most important personal and business data, from multipl…

> Tarsnap makes a lot of sense when you benefit from the encryption and (especially) de-duplication features that it offers.

Can you provide more detail why you think so? I don't believe there is any use case in which tarsnap makes sense, other than maybe some Plan-C backup solution which you fall back on in the highly unlikely event that neither Plan-A nor Plan-B worked.

Concretely, what benefits does tarsnap offer over restic or borg in combination with rsync.net, to make up for the substantial downsides (such as insanely slow restore, complete lack of wetware redundancy or being written in C[1])?

[1] https://www.tarsnap.com/bounty-winners.html

Re: Tarsnap outage postmortem

#88
post #29

Aren't these storage prices absurd? Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding.

It's insane. Not sure how anyone can accept such a rip off pricing. Tarsnap : $0.25 / GB storage, $0.25 / GB bandwidth cost rsync.net : $0.015 / GB storage, no bandwidth cost s3 : $0.023 / GB storage, some complicated bandwidth pricing If tarsnap is built on top of s3, they're charging 10 times for the storage cost. Easy money from the uninformed?

I'm not here to defend it but I only use it as a secondary backup for my mail server (so basically append-only) and for a low amount of gigabytes it's fine and just works. No, I wouldn't want to write changing 100GB there.

Re: Tarsnap outage postmortem

#89
The downtime could have been much shortened if you had properly setup and _tested_ disaster recovery steps. Create a full fledged separate staging system which you can bring down and recreate and periodically test various failure modes + document all detailed steps of system restore etc.

Also I would suggest to think about the business long term and seeing if you can increase the revenue enough to enable you to hire a part-timer who can be of great help in case a similar event happens.

We are also a small cloud solution provider (we focus on ML API's) and over the years it has become clear to us that when you use cloud hardware (either dedicated or virtual), from time to time the outages periodically happen. RAM, HDD or other parts of the hardware just can malfunction anytime. So this is something which 100% needs to be taken into consideration when running any high availability online service over long-term.

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