Earlier quoted context omitted.
Look up Kaveh’s CL tutorial videos on YouTube. They’re really good.
I think you are replying to him.
My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHNK9EcrAwP7djlwQN4C_tg
It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
71–80 of 346 posts
Re: It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
#72Steel Bank Common Lisp is the workhorse which led me to build profitable software companies. I don't think I would be as productive without it. The repl driven workflow is amazing and the lisp images are rock solid and highly performant.
> The repl driven workflow is amazing and the lisp images are rock solid and highly performant. do people not realize that basically everything vm/interpreted language has a repl these days? https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/java-repl-j... https://github.com/waf/CSharpRepl https://pub.dev/packages/interactive not to mention ruby, python, php, lua hell even c++ has a janky repl https://github.com/root-p…
Of course people "realise" this. But those REPLs are not actually REPLs. They are interactive language prompts. They aren't actually REPLs. As the joke goes, Python doesn't have a REPL: it lacks READ, EVAL, PRINT and LOOP.
Being able to type in code and have it evaluated one line at a time isn't a REPL.
Re: It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
#73Wow, wasn't expecting to see my post on here! Eventually, I want to write a follow-up, but I'm still a beginner. Here's what I've liked about Common Lisp so far: * The condition system is neat and I've never used anything like it -- you can easily control code from afar with restarts * REPL-driven programming is handy in situations where you don't quite know what will happen and don't want to lose context -- for exam…
I cdr car less about your cons. Seriously though, mad props for being diligent enough to spend your attention on this. There is a lot to learn from people who came before us and build on that.
Re: It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
#74Steel Bank Common Lisp is the workhorse which led me to build profitable software companies. I don't think I would be as productive without it. The repl driven workflow is amazing and the lisp images are rock solid and highly performant.
> The repl driven workflow is amazing and the lisp images are rock solid and highly performant. do people not realize that basically everything vm/interpreted language has a repl these days? https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/java-repl-j... https://github.com/waf/CSharpRepl https://pub.dev/packages/interactive not to mention ruby, python, php, lua hell even c++ has a janky repl https://github.com/root-p…
The repls you mention are not like lisp repls. You're being downvoted because your comment makes it sound like you've never programmed a lisp but have strong opinions nonetheless.
Re: It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
#75Steel Bank Common Lisp is the workhorse which led me to build profitable software companies. I don't think I would be as productive without it. The repl driven workflow is amazing and the lisp images are rock solid and highly performant.
> The repl driven workflow is amazing and the lisp images are rock solid and highly performant. do people not realize that basically everything vm/interpreted language has a repl these days? https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/java-repl-j... https://github.com/waf/CSharpRepl https://pub.dev/packages/interactive not to mention ruby, python, php, lua hell even c++ has a janky repl https://github.com/root-p…
A REPL isn't just a REPL. You are comparing modern day Toyota Corollas to a Spaceship sent from the future to the 80s. One is just different level radical.
At least when it's baked by SLY or SLIME
Re: It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
#76Steel Bank Common Lisp is the workhorse which led me to build profitable software companies. I don't think I would be as productive without it. The repl driven workflow is amazing and the lisp images are rock solid and highly performant.
> The repl driven workflow is amazing and the lisp images are rock solid and highly performant. do people not realize that basically everything vm/interpreted language has a repl these days? https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/java-repl-j... https://github.com/waf/CSharpRepl https://pub.dev/packages/interactive not to mention ruby, python, php, lua hell even c++ has a janky repl https://github.com/root-p…
> i get downvoted by the lisp crowd every time i bring up that the repl isn't a differentiating feature anymore
I’d suggest it has more to do with tone than content.
Re: It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
#77Wow, wasn't expecting to see my post on here! Eventually, I want to write a follow-up, but I'm still a beginner. Here's what I've liked about Common Lisp so far: * The condition system is neat and I've never used anything like it -- you can easily control code from afar with restarts * REPL-driven programming is handy in situations where you don't quite know what will happen and don't want to lose context -- for exam…
I have some cons! Last time I checked on it, QuickLisp doesn't support fetching packages over anything except for plain http, with no encryption and no verification mechanism in place to detect files that may have been tampered with during transmission. I think not supporting encryption or authentication for something as important as fetching source code makes QL a non-starter for me and hopefully for anyone else who…
Quicklisp doesn’t use TLS or signatures? How have I not heard this before?
That would be unbelievably irresponsible. Has this really not been addressed by the CL community?
Edit: here’s the issue: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/issues/167
Thanks for bringing this up!
Re: It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
#78Wow, wasn't expecting to see my post on here! Eventually, I want to write a follow-up, but I'm still a beginner. Here's what I've liked about Common Lisp so far: * The condition system is neat and I've never used anything like it -- you can easily control code from afar with restarts * REPL-driven programming is handy in situations where you don't quite know what will happen and don't want to lose context -- for exam…
I will give you a cons. https://cons.io Gerbil/Gambit scheme are fully static binary generating alternative to CL.
I’ll take a look, thanks! My biggest concern with Scheme is that each implementation seems to have its own ecosystem due to subtle incompatibilities.
From an outsider’s perspective it seems a lot more fragmented than CL. Not necessarily a big deal if you have the libraries you want, but it gives me pause.
Re: It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have some cons! Last time I checked on it, QuickLisp doesn't support fetching packages over anything except for plain http, with no encryption and no verification mechanism in place to detect files that may have been tampered with during transmission. I think not supporting encryption or authentication for something as important as fetching source code makes QL a non-starter for me and hopefully for anyone else who…
Quicklisp doesn’t use TLS or signatures? How have I not heard this before? That would be unbelievably irresponsible. Has this really not been addressed by the CL community? Edit: here’s the issue: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/issues/167 Thanks for bringing this up!
The reason for this is quite simple: portability. Quicklisp also uses plain TAR files to distribute dists. Why? Because quicklisp has a built-in TAR extractor written in 100% standard/portable CL. This allows Quicklisp to run on just about everything, from your computer to real LispMs and operating systems like Mezzano.
TLS comes up every time someone discusses Quicklisp, but nobody bothers to go ahead and actually implement it portably (and even if they did, have fun with performance and side channel attacks, both of which require you to break portability to implement well for every platform you want to target).
If you would like a more stereotypical package manager, consider using CLPM. Though one of the big reasons to use CLPM is not encryption IMO, but versioning. ASDF supports locking versions of dependencies, but Quicklisp doesnt ever use this and instead constantly pushes latest of everything from git repositories. This IMO sucks a lot more than using plain HTTP given that this actually breaks code, whereas some MITM from plain HTTP connection to Quicklisp would require so much coordination (and specificity of target) that it's just not in my threat model at all.
Re: It's 2023, so of course I'm learning Common Lisp
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The repl driven workflow is amazing and the lisp images are rock solid and highly performant. do people not realize that basically everything vm/interpreted language has a repl these days? https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/java-repl-j... https://github.com/waf/CSharpRepl https://pub.dev/packages/interactive not to mention ruby, python, php, lua hell even c++ has a janky repl https://github.com/root-p…
Of course people "realise" this. But those REPLs are not actually REPLs. They are interactive language prompts. They aren't actually REPLs. As the joke goes, Python doesn't have a REPL: it lacks READ, EVAL, PRINT and LOOP. Being able to type in code and have it evaluated one line at a time isn't a REPL.
i have no idea what subtle or nuanced distinction you're trying to strike so what exactly do you imagine is the difference between a lisp repl and a python repl?
Edit: people that aren't familiar with python (or how interpreters work in general) don't seem to understand that being able to poke and prod the runtime is entirely a function of the runtime, not the language. In cpython you can absolutely do anything you want to the program state, all the way up to, and including, manually push/pop from the interpreter's value stack (to say nothing of moving up and down the frame stack), mutating owned data, redefining functions, classes, modules, etc. You can even, again at runtime, parse, to AST, and compile source to get macro-like functionally. It's not as clean as in lisp but it 100% gets the job done.