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A world where people pay for software

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Re: A world where people pay for software

#431

Post by p1necone »

dminvs wrote: post #427
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you say that because the most popular 3D printer firmwares are open source. Does QA’ing 3D printer firmware sound fun to you? No? Great well you don’t have to do that someone else is literally doing that right now because they thought it was fun. By the way this is a decent job for an apprentice under supervision. It’s a good way to learn with minimal risk and young people are often willing to do this kind of t…

printers can’t flood your kitchen

They can totally set it on fire and poison you with toxic fumes though.

Re: A world where people pay for software

#432

Post by cm2012 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #332
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #306

Computers have an unprecedented ability to reproduce value for free. Programmers need a relatively fixed amount of resources to thrive. (The value of resources varies by location but we all need things like food, shelter, transportation, clothing, tools, etc etc) If we can find a way to make sure every person has what they need to thrive regardless of their income, programmers can open source all of their software an…

One problem is that most necessary projects aren’t fun, and most fun projects aren’t necessary. Does anyone design dishwashers as a hobby, as an easy example? How do you propose we motivate people to do work that isn’t fun? Currently the carrot of higher pay or ownership in a more valuable thing is doing that, so we would need something to replace it if that goes away.

Beyond that, the issue is risk. To make a new, better company is a very risky endeavor. It takes sticking through hard times. Very few people and willing to do that without a chance of major remuneration.

Re: A world where people pay for software

#433

Post by TylerE »

ben0x539 wrote: post #358
pfannkuchen wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem is that most necessary projects aren’t fun, and most fun projects aren’t necessary. Does anyone design dishwashers as a hobby, as an easy example? How do you propose we motivate people to do work that isn’t fun? Currently the carrot of higher pay or ownership in a more valuable thing is doing that, so we would need something to replace it if that goes away.

I'm 200% convinced there are plenty of people out there who could easily be nerdsniped into building an open source dishwasher! Hackers get up to all kinds of stuff that doesn't seem traditionally fun!

Doing something as a hobby as very different from doing what someone tells you to do, how and when they tell you to do it.

Re: A world where people pay for software

#435

Post by BSEdlMMldESB »

matu3ba wrote: post #426
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #306

Computers have an unprecedented ability to reproduce value for free. Programmers need a relatively fixed amount of resources to thrive. (The value of resources varies by location but we all need things like food, shelter, transportation, clothing, tools, etc etc) If we can find a way to make sure every person has what they need to thrive regardless of their income, programmers can open source all of their software an…

Unfortunately that is not how human nature works. Value itself depends on the necessity or desire of people for a product and is distributed via the money printing debt system. In other words: Necessary value can only exist, if other humans have a problem and depend on somebody/something to solve it (temporarily). Explaining valuation from individual desire is hard, but group desire depends on techniques to control t…

the necessity of debt to measure and trade is dubious at best, selfish and evil at worst

people advocating for this are on the receiving end of a very extractive and destructive system

Re: A world where people pay for software

#436

Post by Barrin92 »

bee_rider wrote: post #381
pfannkuchen wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem is that most necessary projects aren’t fun, and most fun projects aren’t necessary. Does anyone design dishwashers as a hobby, as an easy example? How do you propose we motivate people to do work that isn’t fun? Currently the carrot of higher pay or ownership in a more valuable thing is doing that, so we would need something to replace it if that goes away.

I don’t think this is an argument to remove markets. It looks to me more like a suggestion to give people a some kind of guaranteed minimum income, and abolish all IP laws.

to remove property laws is to remove markets by definition. You cannot sell anything you have no ownership over or rights to, given that everyone can just take it.

Hence why open source maintainers are barely paid, and companies in the space rely on selling services, not software. If you want, as the title of the article suggests, a world where people pay for software, strengthen IP laws instead of weakening them.

Re: A world where people pay for software

#437

Post by TaylorAlexander »

dminvs wrote: post #427
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you say that because the most popular 3D printer firmwares are open source. Does QA’ing 3D printer firmware sound fun to you? No? Great well you don’t have to do that someone else is literally doing that right now because they thought it was fun. By the way this is a decent job for an apprentice under supervision. It’s a good way to learn with minimal risk and young people are often willing to do this kind of t…

printers can’t flood your kitchen

right they just burn people's house down

Re: A world where people pay for software

#438

Post by Phrodo_00 »

paulmd wrote: post #329
steveBK123 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SaaS from established firms seems to be more durable & maintained. The problem is all the flash in the pan ZIRP VC funded never-profit SaaS startups out there. Hopefully these get shaken out over the next couple years finally. For example, I've used Adobe products for a very long time, and they get a lot of flack. I was an extensive user of Photoshop (PS) and Lightroom (LR) for a long time. However, the old model was…

> I'm also intrigued by how many very wealthy people are unwilling to pay $10/mo to stream music/video and/or share passwords, when I recall paying $20/CD at the record store in 1998 dollars. I think when it was $10 or $15 a month for Netflix, and you got everything, that people did pay. The problem now is that it’s $20 a month for Netflix, and $20 for Hulu, and $25 for Disney plus, and $20 for HBO (ahem, “Max!”), an…

> piracy is an availability problem

Isn't the line "piracy is a service problem"? That covers availability price, and even user experience (sometimes piracy is an even better experience than paying, like in games that use Denuvo)

Re: A world where people pay for software

#439

Post by SequoiaHope »

rootusrootus wrote: post #328
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #306

Computers have an unprecedented ability to reproduce value for free. Programmers need a relatively fixed amount of resources to thrive. (The value of resources varies by location but we all need things like food, shelter, transportation, clothing, tools, etc etc) If we can find a way to make sure every person has what they need to thrive regardless of their income, programmers can open source all of their software an…

From each according to his ability. So far we haven't worked out how to square that with human nature, and it keeps failing utterly.

And yet 100 years ago Peter Kropotkin asked, "Are we good enough?" (to handle capitalism?) https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-are-w...

A single paragraph excerpt: "Men are not good enough for Communism, but are they good enough for Capitalism? If all men were good-hearted, kind, and just, they would never exploit one another, although possessing the means of doing so. With such men the private ownership of capital would be no danger. The capitalist would hasten to share his profits with the workers, and the best-remunerated workers with those suffering from occasional causes. If men were provident they would not produce velvet and articles of luxury while food is wanted in cottages: they would not build palaces as long as there are slums. "

Re: A world where people pay for software

#440

Post by TaylorAlexander »

ben0x539 wrote: post #358
pfannkuchen wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem is that most necessary projects aren’t fun, and most fun projects aren’t necessary. Does anyone design dishwashers as a hobby, as an easy example? How do you propose we motivate people to do work that isn’t fun? Currently the carrot of higher pay or ownership in a more valuable thing is doing that, so we would need something to replace it if that goes away.

I'm 200% convinced there are plenty of people out there who could easily be nerdsniped into building an open source dishwasher! Hackers get up to all kinds of stuff that doesn't seem traditionally fun!

Yeah easily me.
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