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Sinead O’Connor has died

irishtimes.com

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Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#171

Post by dang »

fknorangesite wrote: post #168
dang wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simply the practical question of what type of site HN is trying to be. We want curious conversation, not people bashing each other, which is what flamebait leads to. Commenters who get too sure of their moral positions tend to do a lot of this. I'm not saying the moral positions are wrong (I probably agree a lot of the time, certainly Sinead did a courageous thing, etc. etc.). But the quality of discussion this…

I mostly like the moderation on this site, but I think you're missing the mark on this one. The man - and the institution - facilitated and covered up the abuse and rape of countless children. Calling him a bastard seems pretty small potatoes for you to start clutching your pearls over.

One has to distinguish the importance of a topic from the quality of internet conversation about it. We moderate for the latter, not the former. Most important topics, including most atrocities, don't make HN's front page, and most things that do make the front page are neither important nor an atrocity.

People tend to respond to activating topics with intense pre-existing feelings. That's understandable—I'm not criticizing it and it would be futile to try to change it. But it does not make for curious conversation, which is what HN is for: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Curious conversation is about learning new things, changing one's orientation, and so on. That's one reason why the best HN threads tend to have a whimsical aspect—when a topic isn't high-stakes and one doesn't have a pre-existing position about it, curiosity is the natural state. Not so much otherwise.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#172

Post by dang »

synetic wrote: post #144
synetic wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been on this site since the beginning. I change usernames periodically. I understand the desire to avoid flame wars. Here’s a sincere question. If I called Charles Manson a bastard would that be flamebait? Are we at the point that calling out the objectively verified despicable acts of a person is flamebait? It wasn’t a swipe at the man. Sinead suffered a lot for ripping his image apart. She has died now. It is…

[flagged]

Gratuitous Hitler invocation usually is.

This type of trolley-problem questioning doesn't work for getting a clearer picture of HN moderation. HN is not a letter-of-the-law kind of place. There's no comprehensive doctrine covering all cases, and it would be foolish of us to try to make one.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#173

Post by oklopre »

RIP. She was an incredible women, with an astounding musical talent. Always bold and outspoken, her live shredding of the Pope's photo to protest the immorality of the Catholic church was both beautiful and iconic. It's a shame she turned to Islam in her later years, but she was clearly a troubled soul. I hope her passing was peaceful.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#175

Post by ogab »

Saw her live in NYC back in 2005 when she was doing roots reggae.

Sly & Robbie was the rhythm section, with Burning Spear on vocals and percussion. Maybe Mikey Chung on guitar?

I was totally surprised at the combination — this Crazy Baldhead amongst Dreads — but one of the best live shows I've been to. Surrounded by reggae icons, she was a boss on that stage.

Big up Sinéad! An incredible musician.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#176

Post by dang »

howinteresting wrote: post #87
dang wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was flamebait, but please let's not take the bait because a religious flamewar is not what we need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[flagged]

"Vibes" is not a concept that enters my mind while moderating this place. If you want to understand the real principle by which we moderate HN, something like "prioritize curiosity over indignation" would be closer to the mark.

> actual real child sexual abuse is a much bigger problem

Of course. It's far more important than anything that goes on on an internet message board like HN. But you might be under a misconception of what HN is for, if you think we should let it be inundated by high-indignation, high-repetition threads about the most important things in the world. That would make it something like a current affairs or general news site, which is not the game we're trying to play here. In fact it's the main game we're trying not to play, as the guidelines try to make clear: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#177

Post by cmrdporcupine »

lamontcg wrote: post #163
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it speaks less to people's religious feelings and more towards the rather apolitical and apathetic alternative music culture at the time. If I recall the atmosphere at the time it was less "how dare she say that about the Pope?!" and more "how dare she co-opt the public stage for controversial/'political' speech?!" I also don't recall the outrage at her SNL performance even being particularly or especially by…

> "how dare she co-opt the public stage for controversial/'political' speech?!" i don't know if the religious or the apolitical/centrists are worse.

It's also important to remember how different that era of broadcast TV is from today though. It was far more centralized. Pre-streaming services, obviously, but also less penetration of cable and satellite TV, and so when something made it onto live broadcast television, there was a large audience, and they didn't have as many choices about what to watch, instead.

So to get yourself onto live television in a popular spot, and do what she did was ballsy, and obviously clearly intended to make impact... but you can also see how people who tuned in expecting one thing and got something else could get angry. Which was of course her intent.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#178

Post by kabes »

mpol wrote: post #92
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #74

This hit me hard. The first of her songs I ever knew, and still my favorite, was "Troy" and I was just thinking of it this morning. Then an hour later someone tweeted that she had died. Probably going to be sad all day.

In the Netherlands this was her most well know song. I was teenager when Troy was a hit on the radio, the video was intriguing. It hits me too, I feel respect for her, though I sometimes had doubts about some ideas she put forward.

There's a great live video from troy at Pinkpop. Maybe that helped her popularity. Or maybe it was the other way around

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#179

Post by vaporary »

whycome wrote: post #153

> She refused the playing of US national anthem before her concerts, drawing further public scorn. Was this a thing?! A good episode of "You're Wrong About..." covers the controversy of her: https://open.spotify.com/episode/265qKOV5C7XBqlyXMjp7VF https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/sin%C3%A9ad-oconnor-wi...

Perhaps it was only a thing at the Garden State Arts Center (now the PNC Bank Arts Center)? Here's a Washington Post story at the time: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1990/08/28/...

The Garden State Arts Center, which always starts its shows by playing the anthem, gave in to the singer's demand, fearing that a last-minute cancellation would enrage the audience of 9,000, but prohibited any future appearances by the hit singer.

Re: Sinead O’Connor has died

#180

Post by ja27 »

johnohara wrote: post #117

I am deeply saddened by her passing. Her performances always featured powerful vocals driven by equally powerful emotion. But her version of Pink Floyd's "Mother," performed live in Berlin in 1990 with Roger Waters, Rick Danko, Levon Helm, and Garth Hudson, was Sinead at her most vulnerable and in my opinion, a full expression of her soul. Audio with onstage video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRbKXACBaoc High qua…

Trivia: Those recordings of her are mostly from the dress rehearsal the night before. They had power issues during her live performance and she refused to come back onstage after the show to record another take. So the concert-goers didn't get to hear this version.
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