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Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

phys.org

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Re: Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

#31

Post by hammock »

justrealist wrote: post #29
hammock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Specific foods. Such as corn, sugar and soybean. “The US sugar program relies on import quotas and limits on domestic production to ensure domestic prices for raw and refined sugar are, on average, about 100% higher than world prices. 4,000 or so farms that raise sugar beet and sugarcane, many of which also plant most of their cropland to other heavily subsidized commodities such as corn and soybeans.” https://w…

> and limits on domestic production How can you possibly be arguing that limits on domestic production are causing overproduction ?

The production limits effectively cap how much subsidy will be paid. The subsidy is still there. Without it, there would be less sugar grown and the land involved (mostly in the Florida Everglades and specifically developed to suit this sugar program) would go to other uses

Re: Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

#32

Post by miguelazo »

justrealist wrote: post #14
miguelazo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The US (and European) ag subsidies are what fuel overproduction, undermine local production and markets in other countries, creating dependencies and poor diets.

Ah yes. If only the US didn't sell food to subsaharan Africa, they'd learn to pull themselves up by their bootstraps! It's really the handouts that makes them dependent on the US government. The horseshoe theory of politics truly explains a lot.

This is literally what happened in Haiti with rice. Even Slick Willie finally apologized for it.

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/bill_clinton_s_trade...

Re: Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

#33

Post by anigbrowl »

soligern wrote: post #23
mistrial9 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really care what the rest of the world whines about thank you for clarifying your point of view so well

To be fair, you’re quoting only half the sentence when the second part of that sentence justifies/qualifies it rather well.

It really doesn't. The person is saying it's OK to poison the US environment because we get good boy points for feeding the rest of the world (something the US does help with, but which impact is exaggerated for rhetorical effect). Apparently they're objecting to the fact that his research comes from a European institution and labeling that as 'whining'.

Re: Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

#34

Post by anigbrowl »

adrr wrote: post #22
downWidOutaFite wrote: post #4

It's also a neurotoxin in humans: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/

Almost everything is neurotoxic depending on the dose. Sodium Chloride(Table Salt) will reek havoc on your brain and nervous systems if the concentration gets to high. Why you get muscle cramps and dizzy when dehydrated. Luckily the study addresses this and says that you have heavily dose rats to get a neurotoxic effect but humans will never see this dose under environmental exposure. > Most of studies of rodents ana…

Rotten eggs reek, wreaking havoc on your olfactory sensibilities.

Re: Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

#35

Post by downWidOutaFite »

adrr wrote: post #22
downWidOutaFite wrote: post #4

It's also a neurotoxin in humans: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/

Almost everything is neurotoxic depending on the dose. Sodium Chloride(Table Salt) will reek havoc on your brain and nervous systems if the concentration gets to high. Why you get muscle cramps and dizzy when dehydrated. Luckily the study addresses this and says that you have heavily dose rats to get a neurotoxic effect but humans will never see this dose under environmental exposure. > Most of studies of rodents ana…

The main point of that section you're quoting is that NOAEL has been set way too high and they didn't account for neurotoxicity. We need more studies. We don't really know at what levels neurotoxicity becomes a problem in human.

> the data discussed herein suggest that these values may still be too high. The results analyzed in this review suggest that the ability of glyphosate, alone or in formulation, to produce neurotoxic effects in rodents has been underestimated.

Re: Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

#36

Post by nemonemo »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #21
hammock wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there glyphosate in our food? How does it get there?

Mainly Roundup residues on GMO foods, as well as farm runoff in groundwater. EPA estimates we're all exposed to 0.058–0.230 mg/kg/day and they set the maximum acceptable daily dose at 1.75 mg/kg/day. But the available dosage science is weak.

Why mainly through GMO foods? I am wondering if other non-GMO ones would use mostly non Roundups, which would be a surprise to me given the availability of Roundups for vegetation control purpose around houses.

Re: Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

#37

Post by damnesian »

shortlongterm wrote: post #9
throwawaay31aq wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

It's easy in America. As soon as your industry becomes big enough you can afford to petition (lobby) the government to write regulations that favor your busines in your industry. Fortunately any American can petition their government. Collectively we could hire our own lobbyist to write better laws (and regulations).

lobbyists aren't supposed to write laws, but the reality is they probably do.

Politics are pay-to-play. We do have organizations that started as citizens coming together to try to influence government, but unless you have a lot of money to throw around, your public interest research group is almost impossible to hear. Who do you think has outized influence- a group of citizens proposing common-sense reforms, or industry lobbyists paid a lot of money to protect an industry's bottom line?

Re: Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

#38

Post by lamontcg »

What about triclopyr?

To try to answer my own question it seems that this page at least suggests that it is non-toxic:

https://www.ncagr.gov/pollinators/documents/Bee%20Pesticide%...

Also it looks like the red and maybe yellow sections of that list should get banned in favor of the green. If there's that many alternatives, we should really force people to switch.

Re: Study shows glyphosate impairs learning in bumblebees

#39

Post by nithril »

vixen99 wrote: post #15
idiotsecant wrote: post #6

There are applications where glyphosate is perfectly appropriate. The issues with it arise when A) farmers use it as a crop dissicant in large quantities to make their crops cheaper to harvest, outside the spec of the product and B) when it's used in unsuitable soil, temperature, and humidity conditions. In the right conditions it has a half life of a few days and will be completely inert in a couple of weeks. This i…

Rational decisions demand access to all necessary information. Thus one might ask if the impairment described is restricted purely to bumblebees? Do we know? What is it that's so special about bumblebees as against other organisms such that they would be immune to 'just a chemical'?

It is an improvement to better understand the glyphosate effects. Rational decision cannot be taken by only considering the glyphosate effects. Decisions have to be taken with an holistic view on the agricultural systems.

Eg. glyphosate might an option to regain control over weeds versus a systematic plow of the soil that has for consequences to damage its structure and its organisms.

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