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Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

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Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#271
post #7

"Home taping is killing music" The record companies did a fantastic job of killing music all by themselves, the quality has absolutely cratered and the occasional great artist that has made it through the long slog to recognition has done so despite the music industry, not because of. I spent a fortune on various formats and when streaming came along I simply refused to participate. I'm simply not going to pay a thir…

> the quality has absolutely cratered You just got old. It happens to everyone, and every generation says the same thing: The music I enjoyed when I was young and impressionable was great, but all the stuff they make nowadays is crap. People were whining about how Beatles destroyed music, how rock’n’roll was just monkey noise, how crooners like Sinatra wasn’t real singing.

This is the most banal argument. It's never possible something is worse than it was before?

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#272
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just didn't provide any argument that piracy did cause the observed collapse of the music industry. You believe the business model based on selling overpriced media and feeding most of it into advertising instead of paying artists, was sustainable?

The launch of Napster in 1999 is the most likely explanation for the massive drop in CD sales starting in 1999. Do you have any alternative explanation?

That's ludicrous. The start of CD sales decline was after a decade and a half of massive CD sales. The market for new CDs was saturated.

You assertion (and that of record companies) conveniently ignores the fact that through the 90s long out of print albums were re-released on CD. For a great many artists it was the first time their work had been in print in decades. So CD sales in the 90s had an enormous boost of nostalgia sales.

Furthermore sales of new music through the 90s was further buoyed by new genres. Hip hop exploded was a footnote in the 80s and exploded in the 90s. Pop country (Garth Brooks etc) also exploded in popularity.

Every Boomer that wanted a copy of Sgt Pepper owned a copy. If they bought their top dozen albums or some compilations with chart toppers they were basically set for music. When they bought iPods they took that collection of CDs and loaded them onto their iPods.

The volume of music piracy was nothing compared to the size of the Boomer economic bloc.

The piracy assertion also hilariously ignores the changes in media. In the 90s most music buyers in the US didn't have an option to buy singles. Most acts no longer released singles. So a buyer wanting one or two songs had to pay $15+ for a whole album of filler. Much to the glee of record executives.

With the iTunes Music Store debut in 2003 buyers could suddenly buy just the one or two songs they liked for a dollar each. They might ultimately spend $15 but they got 15 songs they actually wanted. They also of course had their existing CD collection to source music from. This again led to saturation, most people don't buy tens of thousands of songs. If you have about 300 pop songs (~4min) you've got a playlist that can play all day without repeating.

After 1999 CD sales started to decline once the nostalgia market got saturated and dropped even more once buyers could buy only the tracks they actually wanted. Most bands are lucky to produce an album worth of good songs over a half dozen separate album releases. The sales left after the nostalgia market dropped off was largely just new music sales.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#273
Is this really a problem?

Revenue based on selling copies of a recording is down. The cost of reproducing copies is less than ever. The barrier to creating your own music and distributing it to everyone in the world is less than ever.

All the middlemen cranking out wasteful copies of just one thing are not necessary since music is trivially reproduced with digital copies.

How much should music make as an industry? Who should be making the money from the music that is made? how much money should you make off of a single song that is performed a single time?

This is always a controversial issue. The loudest opinions typically say "they need to make more", which is the same opinion about nearly any profession in the entire world aside from the ones that make the very most money. Some musicians still fall into that category.

At the end of the day the lion's share of revenue doesn't go to a performer anyway, it goes to middlemen who add no value to the actual performance - they just make it be distributed and decide the winners and losers based on arbitrary gatekeeping. The contracts are predatory and the whole thing seems f'd to me.

I know many people with primary and side gigs as performance artists who don't make superstar money, there's no shortage. Live musical performance is all over the place and the ticket prices are outrageously high for any in-demand performance.

Most of us don't have the option for income in perpetuity for work performed - we just get paid for hours worked. Is there an argument around payment in perpetuity vs pay for work performed that should apply across the board?

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the quality has absolutely cratered You just got old. It happens to everyone, and every generation says the same thing: The music I enjoyed when I was young and impressionable was great, but all the stuff they make nowadays is crap. People were whining about how Beatles destroyed music, how rock’n’roll was just monkey noise, how crooners like Sinatra wasn’t real singing.

Ehh. I was in high school and college throughout the '90s and still think pop music quality peaked sometime between 1966 and 1986. It's not necessarily an age thing. I mean, I remember thinking that at the time too. There are still tons of great musicians and bands making new music today, but the stuff that most people are familiar with is dreck compared to what most people were familiar with fifty years ago. Among o…

>Ehh. I was in high school and college throughout the '90s and still think pop music quality peaked sometime between 1966 and 1986

How much of that was influence from baby-boomer controlled music media?

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#275
post #28
post #17

The reality is that yes, cassettes really were responsible for a substantial downturn in music revenue in the late 70s and early 80s: https://i.insider.com/4d5ea2acccd1d54e7c030000 Then cassettes got replaced with CDs which (initially) were read only, which again saved the market from piracy ... until online piracy with Napster and MP3 players completely crushed the music market, but far worse than cassettes. Even 20…

This kinda explains the anti-piracy hysteria of the 2000s.

And their resurgence with AI and Google’s web integrity thing

The web is just TV3.0, reserved for acceptable political and commercial content now. Eh I’m done with that; switching off to all of it. Will stick to internet for job and not use it on my personal desktop, just phone.

Copyright rent seekers can do something useful for humanity or stick to making it about “the art” and perform local theatre

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#276
post #17

The reality is that yes, cassettes really were responsible for a substantial downturn in music revenue in the late 70s and early 80s: https://i.insider.com/4d5ea2acccd1d54e7c030000 Then cassettes got replaced with CDs which (initially) were read only, which again saved the market from piracy ... until online piracy with Napster and MP3 players completely crushed the music market, but far worse than cassettes. Even 20…

In the 1980s there was a record store where I lived that sold "used" records and tapes. Their hook was that they'd take any record back within a week of purchase. I think they witheld a dollar or two on the refund. So you'd go in, buy a record and a blank cassette, go home and make a tape of the record, then return the record. My friends and I did this countless times. If there was a record we all liked we'd just buy…

Making copies of cassettes was just standard practice. A new album came out and we’d all chip in for one and then copy the rest onto cassettes using the double speed cassette copying that was standard in most stereos.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#277

Is this really a problem? Revenue based on selling copies of a recording is down. The cost of reproducing copies is less than ever. The barrier to creating your own music and distributing it to everyone in the world is less than ever. All the middlemen cranking out wasteful copies of just one thing are not necessary since music is trivially reproduced with digital copies. How much should music make as an industry? Wh…

Yup! And the same can be said for your work also, if you produce digital content

It will all become hobbies

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#278
post #90
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sulfur mining industry never recovered from the drop in revenue after someone discovered a way to extract it on scale from low-quality coal. Poland had a massive drop in revenue despite being the one selling both products. Does it mean they should attach a coal burning license agreement prohibiting the extraction process to each container, or try to prosecute people selling filters?

Piracy was illegal long before cassettes or Napster were invented. Sulfur extraction was always legal, and for good reason.

So the laws were misguided. Why should someone be granted a monopoly on excluding others from using an idea (patent) or content (copyright)? To prop up a business model that cannot be sustained except if based on threats of violence?

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#279
post #275
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kinda explains the anti-piracy hysteria of the 2000s.

And their resurgence with AI and Google’s web integrity thing The web is just TV3.0, reserved for acceptable political and commercial content now. Eh I’m done with that; switching off to all of it. Will stick to internet for job and not use it on my personal desktop, just phone. Copyright rent seekers can do something useful for humanity or stick to making it about “the art” and perform local theatre

You can’t opt of it, your friends will make decisions that affect you, bother you with political opinions, share your photos etc.

Re: Home Taping Is Killing Music: When the music industry waged war on the cassette

#280
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't mention any of these possible causes though. I did not, but I was responding to your "The reality is that yes, cassettes really were responsible" which to me reads like a statement of fact and not one of possible cause. The fact remains that the graph you shared does not proof cassettes were responsible for that. Another possibility is that music revenue around that 1976 peak shown in your graph is due to…

> I did not, but I was responding to your "The reality is that yes, cassettes really were responsible" which to me reads like a statement of fact and not one of possible cause. The fact remains that the graph you shared does not proof cassettes were responsible for that. It's an inference to the best explanation: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/ No empirical evidence conclusively proves its true explanat…

> It's an inference to the best explanation: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/ No empirical evidence conclusively proves its true explanation, but the best available explanation is the most likely correct one.

This is gibberish, dude. If we don't know, let's admit we don't know. "the best available explanation is the most likely correct one" is not even close to reality.

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