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‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

nature.com

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Re: ‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

#21

Post by DarkNova6 »

constantcrying wrote: post #18
vouaobrasil wrote: post #10

It may be a person's instinct to immediately blame the researcher, and of course, I definitely think data fabrication is never justified. However, what is the societal problem here? It's the problem that in academia, there are such pressures to publish and be first nowadays that many people will do anything to get ahead. It doesn't help that social media and news sites have introduced a sort of gamification into it.…

>It's the problem that in academia, there are such pressures to publish and be first nowadays that many people will do anything to get ahead. If you can not do honest work in academia you should leave and go work somewhere else. Fraud is not the correct reaction to the problems of academia, as it actively hurts it even more. Nobody is forced to do academic research for a living, especially if you have a degree in phy…

> Fraud is not the correct reaction to the problems of academia, as it actively hurts it even more.

Not in the short term. And only for yourself personally if you are found out.

Of course there are perverse incentives which goes against the scientific spirit. It doesn’t even require malicious intent. Neglect and bias can be similarly powerful negative forces.

Re: ‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

#22

Post by inglor_cz »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #10

It may be a person's instinct to immediately blame the researcher, and of course, I definitely think data fabrication is never justified. However, what is the societal problem here? It's the problem that in academia, there are such pressures to publish and be first nowadays that many people will do anything to get ahead. It doesn't help that social media and news sites have introduced a sort of gamification into it.…

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."

The publish-or-perish mentality combined with the grant system introduces a lot of bad incentives into the scientific ecosystem.

Re: ‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

#23

Post by catgary »

constantcrying wrote: post #18
vouaobrasil wrote: post #10

It may be a person's instinct to immediately blame the researcher, and of course, I definitely think data fabrication is never justified. However, what is the societal problem here? It's the problem that in academia, there are such pressures to publish and be first nowadays that many people will do anything to get ahead. It doesn't help that social media and news sites have introduced a sort of gamification into it.…

>It's the problem that in academia, there are such pressures to publish and be first nowadays that many people will do anything to get ahead. If you can not do honest work in academia you should leave and go work somewhere else. Fraud is not the correct reaction to the problems of academia, as it actively hurts it even more. Nobody is forced to do academic research for a living, especially if you have a degree in phy…

I think we’re getting to competitive sports territory, where people justify it to themselves because they’re convinced everyone else is doing it.

Re: ‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

#24

Post by pvaldes »

Science currently looks like somebody going to fish, with the purpose of caught the best fish in the sea.

So first they put the bait inside a plastic box, to weed out all the dumb fishes.

Then they put the box inside another sealed wooden box, with a combination lockpad. Because only a really smart fish with skilled fin-paws should be able to figure out how to open also that box.

For better measure, they finally put the wooden crate out of the water, to select for olympic fishes able to keep its breath for a longer time.

And then put an electronic device in the bottom with an encrypted map to the treasure. When some fish will appear will be the most stupendous fish in the sea, with the most brilliant scales; And everybody will be happy to eat it

And then science waits...

and waits some more,...

a little more...

And after one year, science starts wondering where all the fishes go, and why all of the candidates that appeared are rats.

If you put too much requisites and ask for only ideal flawless careers, made in some unicornia university; in the short time the candidates interested in your job position will start lying. After a while all that remain at your door are cheaters

So, well... enjoy the fruits of your brilliant strategy.

Re: ‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

#25

Post by inglor_cz »

gwill wrote: post #4

interesting timing with this hitting the front page yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36864624

Timing, yes, but the Korean paper seems to be a lot more verifiable/falsifiable. No obfuscations and the method that they describe only needs some fairly basic reagents and equipment for replication, plus a few days' worth of time. If they are wrong, we should know pretty soon.

Re: ‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

#26

Post by j_maffe »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #10

It may be a person's instinct to immediately blame the researcher, and of course, I definitely think data fabrication is never justified. However, what is the societal problem here? It's the problem that in academia, there are such pressures to publish and be first nowadays that many people will do anything to get ahead. It doesn't help that social media and news sites have introduced a sort of gamification into it.…

I can see how that can be the case if it's for survival, but no one pressured this person to try to claim to find one of the most sought-after technologies out there. It also doesn't apply cause he voluntarily chose to go to a prestigious university where this kind of pressure exists. Competition can be healthy thing as long as it doesn't threaten the researcher's career, which clearly wasn't the case here. This guy had the balls to do it twice in two years after getting caught, clearly he's set in his ways.

Re: ‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

#27

Post by pohl »

supazek wrote: post #14
lockhouse wrote: post #9

It feels like karma after being told we had to blindly “trust the science” during the pandemic.

Covid would not have even been recorded if it happened 100 years ago. Start flashing on the screen the numbers of people killed by drunk drivers every week and let’s get something done about that instead of crashing trust in our national institutions —- with no survivors!

How would you explain the fact that the “Spanish flu” was recorded? Covid surpassed Spanish flu as the deadliest disease in U.S. back In September 2021.

Re: ‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

#28

Post by inglor_cz »

supazek wrote: post #14
lockhouse wrote: post #9

It feels like karma after being told we had to blindly “trust the science” during the pandemic.

Covid would not have even been recorded if it happened 100 years ago. Start flashing on the screen the numbers of people killed by drunk drivers every week and let’s get something done about that instead of crashing trust in our national institutions —- with no survivors!

The Russian flu of 1889–1890 might actually have been a coronavirus infection, not a flu. HCoV-OC43 stands under suspicion.

130 years ago, and people certainly felt the need to record it.

Re: ‘A very disturbing picture’: another retraction for controversial physicist

#29

Post by vouaobrasil »

constantcrying wrote: post #18
vouaobrasil wrote: post #10

It may be a person's instinct to immediately blame the researcher, and of course, I definitely think data fabrication is never justified. However, what is the societal problem here? It's the problem that in academia, there are such pressures to publish and be first nowadays that many people will do anything to get ahead. It doesn't help that social media and news sites have introduced a sort of gamification into it.…

>It's the problem that in academia, there are such pressures to publish and be first nowadays that many people will do anything to get ahead. If you can not do honest work in academia you should leave and go work somewhere else. Fraud is not the correct reaction to the problems of academia, as it actively hurts it even more. Nobody is forced to do academic research for a living, especially if you have a degree in phy…

I never said fraud is the correct reaction. Like I said, I believe it is wrong unequivocally.

I did say that fraud is something that is essentially encouraged in academia. Nobody is forced to do it of course, but then again, any system will have its flaws that encourages bad behaviour, and it is also advantageous to restructure the system to minimize that.

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