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Google vs. the Open Web

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Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#81

Post by exceptione »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #18

I mentioned this in the other WEI thread and I’ll do it here again: Instead of simply flailing our collective arms around complaining about an evil corporation, has anyone written to the respective competition authorities (such as the FTC in the US or CCI in India) about the potential anticompetitive effects of this proposal?

Trying to reach official authorities is a good idea. I will quote and extend part of my call to action I did in an other thread

- ban Google all together in your personal life. No chrome and no excuses. Stop the bullshit or leave this profession. Use startpage, duckduck or whatever for searching.

- develop with and for firefox and friends only, introduce usability problems for chrome

- employ the same tactics as google.

  -> Bundle firefox with the software you are distributing. 

  -> Like google did, remove the competition altogether from the users device.

  -> make your npm-module or your website slower in chrome

  -> let your customers know that your service for non-chrome users is cheaper. Money motivates.

  -> show a popup urging users to download firefox, provide a link to download or page with more explanation.
 Tell that you detected that their current chrome has security and privacy risks and that you recommend to take action immediately. Average user is easily scared into action.

  -> use as many tricks as you can think of to spoil the well for google. 
     Destroy search results, fill their storage with /dev/random, whatever your imagination leads you too. You keep telling us you are so smart. Show it.
- remember, Google's capital is data. Hit that and the beast will die.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#82

Post by out_of_protocol »

hotstickyballs wrote: post #4
sakex wrote: post #3

Soon, websites will require kernel access to make sure you don't have cheats installed. (Sarcasm, obviously)

Not that extreme but some banking apps on android did check for root at some point and refused to run so there may be precedent

Many random apps do e.g. McDonald's app, and not just root but SafetyNet checks, which is way more strict than just root thing

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#83

Post by xur17 »

exceptione wrote: post #81
supriyo-biswas wrote: post #18

I mentioned this in the other WEI thread and I’ll do it here again: Instead of simply flailing our collective arms around complaining about an evil corporation, has anyone written to the respective competition authorities (such as the FTC in the US or CCI in India) about the potential anticompetitive effects of this proposal?

Trying to reach official authorities is a good idea. I will quote and extend part of my call to action I did in an other thread - ban Google all together in your personal life. No chrome and no excuses. Stop the bullshit or leave this profession. Use startpage, duckduck or whatever for searching. - develop with and for firefox and friends only, introduce usability problems for chrome - employ the same tactics as goog…

> show a popup urging users to download firefox, provide a link to download or page with more explanation. Tell that you detected that their current chrome has security and privacy risks and that you recommend to take action immediately. Average user is easily scared into action.

If I recall correctly, this was Google's approach with Chrome.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#84

Post by dschuetz »

EGreg wrote: post #25
dschuetz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Build a new Web w/o Google.

We have been doing it! Join us! It isn’t perfect but we are ahead of most others (Mastodon, Matrix). We have spent TWELVE YEARS building the free, permissionless open source platform for anyone to assemble and host their own community software with all the features of Facebook/Twitter/TikTok for their own community: https://github.com/Qbix/Platform We are about to roll out version 2.0 — I have never done this before…

> It isn’t perfect but we are ahead of most others (Mastodon, Matrix). We have spent TWELVE YEARS building the free, permissionless open source platform for anyone to assemble and host their own community software with all the features of Facebook/Twitter/TikTok for their own community

Why are you using Github then?

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#85

Post by nobody9999 »

protocolture wrote: post #79

This is kind of overblown isnt it? I remember sites doing all sorts of hacks to identify and shut down IE back in the day. "Works best in Chrome/Firefox". "The proposal calls for at least the following information in the signed attestation: The attester's identity, for example, "Google Play". A verdict saying whether the attester considers the device trustworthy. " So a user agent string and a weak attestation? This…

And if the "attester" decides that IceWeasel on Ubuntu (or Firefox with uBlock/uMatrix/NoScript) isn't "trustworthy," but (unmodified) Chrome is "trustworthy," you've just created vendor lock-in.

That's not a "nothingburger" IMHO.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#86

Post by teddyh »

dschuetz wrote: post #5

The bright side is, when Google really pushes through with this WEI nonsense, it will not only break the Web, it will also create some kind of premium Web run by Google, analogous to gated communities. And then the worldwide Internet ad market bubble will finally burst.

Called it:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31835121>

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33210846>

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#87

Post by lost_tourist »

dschuetz wrote: post #5

The bright side is, when Google really pushes through with this WEI nonsense, it will not only break the Web, it will also create some kind of premium Web run by Google, analogous to gated communities. And then the worldwide Internet ad market bubble will finally burst.

eh I've heard this for 20 years...

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#88

Post by xNeil »

urda wrote: post #74
xNeil wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google will lose all respect from the community and will collapse sooner or later. I love this little bubble all of HN (or at least a vocal majority) seems to live in. Google is most definitely not collapsing anytime soon, and their products are loved by millions, if not billions, of users all over the world. >They are losing their monopoly No, they most definitely aren't. Brave Browser runs on top of Google's Chrom…

"the rotten tree-trunk, until the very moment when the storm-blast breaks it in two, has all the appearance of might it ever had." - Isaac Asimov, Foundation

While that's a very nice saying, and I appreciate you applying in this context, what you're basically saying is we can never ever assess any organization as strong whatsoever, since every organization that breaks up seems strong at some point.

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#89

Post by nobody9999 »

theK wrote: post #57
theK wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 2000s it was funny how corporates just failed to understand how client server models worked. Nowadays it is just sad and a reason to move more and more towards crypto for the day to day banking stuff...

Oh right! I said crypto on hacker news! what was I thinking?! :-D

>Oh right! I said crypto on hacker news! what was I thinking?! :-D

Post that comment again when crypto accounts are FDIC[0] (or whatever scheme, if any, is used where you live) insured. I'm sure you'll get a different response.

[0] https://www.fdic.gov/

Re: Google vs. the Open Web

#90

Post by Daril »

xNeil wrote: post #67
Daril wrote: post #41

This is a clear sign of Google's weakness. They are losing their monopoly and are desperately trying to hold on to the net. In the last few weeks, they have announced that they will try to block navigation if you have an ad blocker installed (for example, when watching a video on Youtube). Take a look at Fuchsia for another example ... they are losing the control on Android, so they started this new project ... it is…

>Google will lose all respect from the community and will collapse sooner or later. I love this little bubble all of HN (or at least a vocal majority) seems to live in. Google is most definitely not collapsing anytime soon, and their products are loved by millions, if not billions, of users all over the world. >They are losing their monopoly No, they most definitely aren't. Brave Browser runs on top of Google's Chrom…

> Their impact on humanity has a whole has so far most definitely been net positive, and you are under no obligation whatsoever to use their products.

The strategy over the years has always been the same:

1. create a necessary product and give it away "for free"

2. wait until people are used to it and consider it essential and difficult to migrate

3. close the gate and make it no longer free.

For example : Gmail for organisations (at launch free up to 100 users, then 50, then 10, then 0), Maps for websites (lower free tier now), Google Drive (lower free tier now), Youtube is next ... That these are the "best" products in the world is a subjective affirmation. They are pre-installed on devices and difficult to remove ...

They can do whatever they want with their products, of course, but trying to control the openess of the web as we know now, it is a different thing ...

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