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Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

theguardian.com

151–160 of 263 posts

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#151

There is an ugly trend here. We want to protect children from exploitation, so we make artificial learning environments where kids interact with each other instead of adults and perform often silly exercises instead of actually participating in the creation of value. Now we want to protect kids by removing their capacity to communicate and organize socially. Protecting children is a noble goal, but it may be possible…

Adults have been fine with the Lord of the Flies tendencies of adolescent education. But now smartphones are ruining everything? I don’t have children let alone teenage ones so maybe I shouldn’t have an opinion on this, but it seems that we adults complain way too much about teenagers and almost never consider that maybe we have structured their lives in a way that isn’t great for them. Singling out smartphones or bi…

Exactly. We put children into a 12 year long institutional dictatorial meat grinder with absolutely no say about anything (well, maybe a few electives in high school).

It stems from "children" (aka under 18) having absolutely no rights, and the parents having all. And the schools are in loco parentis, so they can do mostly anything they want.

And I find hilarious that this country extols republics and democracies as the best forms of governance, yet 2 places we humans spend most of our time in (school, work) are dictatorships. And we usually are powerless in choosing schools, and only have some power to choose which company to work at.

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#152
post #91

Going against HN's usual anti-smartphone thing, I think this is incredibly dumb. Luckily no one really cares much about what UNESCO calls for. Outright bans on smartphones in schools are no different from the video game, TV screen time, "kids will only play games on computers" and other related superstitions that were in vogue back in the early 2000s. All they did was make parents feel validated (without having to pu…

I think this would be incredibly dumb, because global bans are incredibly dumb. If individual schools (or even individual counties etc) want to try a ban like that, they can experiment. I don't know whether it's a good idea or not. But I do know that a global ban is beyond silly.

There is no one authority that can enforce a "global ban" anyway.

I believe this is just an appeal to school authorities worldwide - asking them to recognize the downsides and take concrete measures in their own way to keep smartphones away from learners in the classroom setting.

If enough school boards agree and take such a stand -- others are likely to emulate / follow, parents and kids will come to accept it and adapt, and it becomes a defacto global ban.

I guess, somewhat similar to how public smoking has now become near universally "banned" or at least shunned.

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#153
post #41

We've come full circle. When I was in high school (2013), smartphones had just started to become the default (i had a galaxy s2) and cell phones had been banned in-class since they became common for every teenager to have one (as early as 2007 for me, probably earlier than that for older millennials) I guess at some point teachers gave up trying to enforce the rules. Or the idea of being away from your phone for hour…

>I guess at some point teachers gave up trying to enforce the rules. Or the idea of being away from your phone for hours at a time became strange to everyone. Or maybe teachers thought they could incorporate phones into lesson plans. I can speak from experience in teaching, and being married to a teacher who both have seem the implementation of smartphones and the consequences thereof. It's not the students, it's not…

Great perspective. I had not considered the effect of school shootings on this topic. Not a parent, but I suspect this has really driven parents to a place of fear (justifiably), leading to a need to ALWAYS know if their kid is ok at any moment, in schools and in general

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#154
post #41

We've come full circle. When I was in high school (2013), smartphones had just started to become the default (i had a galaxy s2) and cell phones had been banned in-class since they became common for every teenager to have one (as early as 2007 for me, probably earlier than that for older millennials) I guess at some point teachers gave up trying to enforce the rules. Or the idea of being away from your phone for hour…

>I guess at some point teachers gave up trying to enforce the rules. Or the idea of being away from your phone for hours at a time became strange to everyone. Or maybe teachers thought they could incorporate phones into lesson plans. I can speak from experience in teaching, and being married to a teacher who both have seem the implementation of smartphones and the consequences thereof. It's not the students, it's not…

Ignore those parents, they are just unable to handle on their own their own insecurities, mental issues, stress and other baggage and they bring it also to raising of their closest ones, with corresponding long term consequences.

There are dedicated terms for those, ie helicopter parents, control freaks etc.

The simple fact is, internet/mobile/information revolution came too fast, caught whole world by a massive surprise, and people had to cope with completely new benefits and drawbacks of this new aspect of their lives on their own. As with everything else, some cope better/smarter than others, and as usually nothing is black & white.

You are doing fine (judging solely from your description), don't worry what others say - its their problem.

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#155
post #8

Not sure about you guys, but I plan to not give my kids a phone until they reach at least the age of 14 (7 and 3 atm) Is this realistic? Any experiences?

The social pressure starts around 9 and just gets worse. I just don't care if "everybody else has one". But to the kids its really important to "fit in". Up to you to teach them that keeping up with the Jones' kids isn't necessary. I feel it has been good for my kids to not have phones until teens when they might legitimately need one. Once my we got a phone for my daughter it came with a dose of lecturing about data…

It isn't just pressure to fit in, it will mark them as different and may lead to ostracism or being targeted for bullying. In the past this was rare and kids were more understanding of friends who didn't have access but it seems to be getting worse each year.

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#156
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad how addiction implies "be more tolerating because it'll happen anyways and be worse if you aren't", though. I'm not saying that addicted people should just be thrown aside. At the same time, since addiction implies an altered mental state like insanity, addicted people are clearly a burden to society that can't be reasoned with. In general, people have their circumstances that lead them to do what they do, b…

But it’s not "happening anyway", most people take drugs just fine without getting addicted. It’s when you are in a lousy situation and you take them regularly as an escape that you have a problem.

Most people may be fine, but considering that the CDC reported nearly 92,000 drug overdose deaths in 2020[0], I think there is a problem. Granted, it's a low percentage of the population, but that feels like the whole reducing people to statistics. The number seems to be growing, and anyways, you don't need to be on the immediate path to drug overdose for addiction to be an issue.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db428.htm#secti...

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#157
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My teacher would have ripped the gameboy out of my hand and confiscated it for the rest of the school year. Teachers do not that have that kind of freedom today. Well, how are teachers supposed to enforce a ban on smartphones, then?

The school system and public institutions need to protect them and give them back this power.

If they get this power, why do we need the global ban, then?

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Outright bans on smartphones in schools are no different from the video game, TV screen time Back then kids were not watching tv or playing video games in the middle of class. I remember when I was in school people were texting on their flip phones, I can't imagine the extent of distractions in school today. I used to pay attention in class only because there was nothing more entertaining to do. If I had a phone an…

> playing video games in the middle of class. Laughs in GameBoy. Seriously, you have to be elder gen x or older to exist in a time where handheld consoles of some flavor were not available. And there’s always been other forms of entertainment, be it passing notes, talking, or daydreaming.

Guess which class I did worst in my senior year mid 2000s?

The one where I played NES emulator on the lab computer and blockdude on the ti83.

There is something to be said for focus.

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#159

Going against HN's usual anti-smartphone thing, I think this is incredibly dumb. Luckily no one really cares much about what UNESCO calls for. Outright bans on smartphones in schools are no different from the video game, TV screen time, "kids will only play games on computers" and other related superstitions that were in vogue back in the early 2000s. All they did was make parents feel validated (without having to pu…

I'm with you on this. I can understand controlling the use of phones during class because it's disrespectful for the teachers work, but a complete ban is just dumb and seems like virtue signalling. If this is a problem for you as a parent, you have the choice of not buying your kid the phone in the first place, or not letting him take it to school. I thinks that any rule or law that takes away from the parents the re…

> Also specially in the US with all the school shootings, banning kids from having phones that allow them to call for help seems like a really bad idea.

Run the numbers. This isn't a justification for much, really.

They're a shameful occurrence, but the odds of a kid being present during any kind of shooting at school (gang member standing in the parking lot and firing at someone not on school property, and not a student or faculty member; targeted jilted-lover killing of a teacher; targeted crime-related [think: beef over drug territory] killing of one student by another, with a gun; and yes, also mass shootings) at any point during their k-12 education, are low. Present, not killed or injured. Indiscriminate mass shootings are very far from being the most common kind of shooting at schools, so that's even less likely—being present at all, that is, not hurt or killed, that's vanishingly unlikely over all 13 years of school. Nb that's assuming even-odds of shootings at all schools, which isn't the case.

So you're harming all kids' educations and exposing them to some messed-up stuff (talk. to. some. teachers. What you think I meant by that? Shock images or something? Not as messed-up as I actually mean) in case they're in a mass shooting (rare) and also their having a phone makes a difference in the outcome (narrowing the slice of this-was-a-good-idea circumstances even more)

It's awful that they happen, absolutely, and they are one small but striking feature of our messed-up gun laws and culture and we really do need to fix all that, but perceptions of how common they are are completely out of phase with reality, which leads to bad decision-making.

Re: Unesco calls for global ban on smartphones in schools

#160
post #8

Not sure about you guys, but I plan to not give my kids a phone until they reach at least the age of 14 (7 and 3 atm) Is this realistic? Any experiences?

It is realistic, but you have your work cut out for you, and you need to understand you can't fully ban them.

My son is 11, and finally got a phone, but with a talk and text plan, no data. He can take it to school but only if he thinks he is going to go to a friend's house after, so he can ask us/tell us what he is up to.

We fully understand he can just walk to the community centre to get WiFi, and recenlty told me how to access the School Board's WiFi LOL. In fact, he worked the AV club there managing all their gear for the school play. We fully understood he has the "knack" and we can't stop him, so we helped him, and by doing so, it built trust, and we explained why bringing the phone in the class is a distraction. It's not that the phone is bad, it just takes away from learning.

I have saying at home. When we eat, we eat. That means we do that one task, and nothing else. So in the class, when you learn, you learn.

They have their scheduled video time, weekends are 1hr morning, 30min afternoon, and 1 hour evening. If we take trips or go with friends, the time is gone. There is no "banking" your time.

The other interesting thing, and this was confirmed by my friend who is a high school teacher, is that Parents were the ones calling their kids the most during classes! Of course, there will be a boyfriend here and there, but overall, it's Grandma calling, or mom/dad.

Back on topic...we use an iPhone, because we can control which apps he can install, and it notifies us to approve/deny. This helps a lot. Also, Discord is a nightmare. Luckily, his account is installed on all of our phones, so we can see the chats, and some chats were REALLY bad. So we had a talk about them, and he even sided with us! SHOCKING!! I guess what I have to say is, if you are there with them in this journey, you are more likely to be able to guide them along, and be sure not to make a big deal if something bad happens, like a chat where someone posts inappropriate pictures, e.g. Porn, etc, and just direct them to the correct path.

Btw, my 11 year old can change my car tires and use all my power tools. He really has the knack. So that's why we knew banning wouldn't work. My younger son hasn't shown the same maturity, and generally follows along the rules that his big brother follows. So the effort you put in one kid, could be reused after. Although I don't think we will get our youngest a phone as early as our oldest, as he is happier playing active sports. He tends to be grumpy and doesn't handle losing at games, and doesn't know how to fix a controller that stops works. So his view of technology is not the same as our other son. So be aware that every kid is different in skill and cognitive abilities.

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