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Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

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191–200 of 213 posts

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#191
post #43
post #17

>Today, we live in a rentier's paradise. People don't aspire to create value – they aspire to capture it... don't provide a service, just figure out a way to interpose yourself between the provider and the customer I think the customer has just changed. Consumers don't have money anymore. Businesses do. Maybe said a different way, for the highest margin products you are targeting businesses. A consumer spending 100k…

> I think the customer has just changed. Consumers don't have money anymore. Businesses do. ...You...recognize that's not a sustainable state of affairs, right? Ultimately, if consumers don't have money, the economy will start to collapse. The upper echelons can feed on each other for a while, but you need an economic base to support the whole edifice. Plus, if "consumers" are unable to get what they need for surviva…

> Ultimately, if consumers don't have money, the economy will start to collapse. The upper echelons can feed on each other for a while, but you need an economic base to support the whole edifice.

They will take on debt in lieu of money. And all signs point to lots of that happening, since spending is still high.

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#192

Popular intellectuals always try to give socialism a pass. It is left-wing sentiments—or more generally, anti-free-market sentiments—that enable industries to convince the populace to support laws that give them feudalistic control. See how the Hotel Industry successfully used these to lock down major short-term rental markets: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/technology/inside-the-hot... And what can reasonably be…

Socialism aside, since that is a boogieman. As much as 'free-market' is boogieman. There were problems in the free market in the 1900's with employees being slaves, corporations were hiring Pinkertons and killing people. It was actual war. So Unions were the outcome. Maybe Unions were not optimal, but they were not the cause of all this, they were the outcome. Nobody formed Unions to 'extract' rents, they were formed…

>There were problems in the free market in the 1900's with employees being slaves, corporations were hiring Pinkertons and killing people. It was actual war. So Unions were the outcome.

Pinkertons were brought in when unions set up picket lines, and then beat up or killed any worker who crossed it. Unions call replacement workers "scabs" to dehumanize them, so that they can rationalize brutalizing them.

It was always a racket, and dominated by Communists and organized crime from the very beginning.

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#193

Enshittification for [EVERYTHING] is going to keep Cory busy for years

He's as skilled at branding as those he ostensibly decries. There were many perfectly good* words to describe this phenomenon - degradation, ossification, sclerosis and more. Instead we've got this ugly neologism, the literary equivalent of a poop emoji. I agree with a lot of Doctorow's ideas, but I don't care for his commodification of dystopia. It feels like using goths to sell cigarettes. * Not 'cromulent'

its essentially the same rehash critique of capitalism that's been a thing for a while. he's just given it a fun name. "rent-seeking-behavior" is too sterile.

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#194
post #12

While I dislike the elecronification trend, cars are definitely better than they were 30-40 years ago, in a completely different league when it comes to reliability. Plenty of people also like the touchscreens or seemingly superflous features like Tesla's dog mode. Not gearheads but many normies genuinely do. To the extent that cars did get worse, it was mostly to meet stringent emissions regulations, not computers o…

> While I dislike the elecronification trend, cars are definitely better than they were 30-40 years ago, in a completely different league when it comes to reliability. Plenty of people also like the touchscreens or seemingly superflous features like Tesla's dog mode. Not gearheads but many normies genuinely do.

This is because of state (mostly California) and federal laws passed, with the most aggressive taking effect in 2015.

The only reason Ford isn't selling you a Shit-Wagon is because they can't, by law.

Touchscreens are ass for doing anything while driving. I live in a city and cannot safely change my AC unless I'm at a stoplight. No knobs / only touchscreen is definitely a dealbreaker for my next vehicle, and all research suggests that the "normies" hate them too.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/08/yes-touchscreens-really...

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/good-news-touchs...

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#195
post #2

" Read the full story with a free account. - Sign up with Google - Sign up with Facebook - Sign up with email "

Cory Doctorow has a personal site: https://pluralistic.net/2023/07/24/rent-to-pwn/ Incidentally I follow him on Mastodon and saw this yesterday. Hacker News is really slow to pick up Cory Doctorow's stuff despite ostensibly being full of freedom-loving techies.

> ostensibly being full of freedom-loving techies

> ostensibly

this is a tech news site in an incubator. they're not here for freedom, they're here to make $$$.

a non-trivial number of posters here are, or wish to be, the people that Doctorow is criticizing.

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#196

I think Cory is going a little too harsh on Uber/Amazon. People use them because they provide convenience and ease-of-use, and are willing to pay for a better customer experience. If anything, 'taxi medallions' are literally the original form of feudalism and collecting rent from doing nothing.

His observations are mostly on the mark, but I'm kinda dubious this is actually any better or worse than ever before. I'm not sure if there's an econometric measure of rents per GDP or whatever, but I kinda doubt it's sky high by a historical standard.

I don't have a full essay on the subject, but I have a gut feeling that the informalization of society has relieved a ton of useless costs on people. Spending money on cultural imperatives like going to church, wearing a tie to the office, wearing diamonds to look prosperous are no longer mandatory in much of the first world.

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#197
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Income growth has stagnated because of growing centralization. All of this socialism you claim we need is contributing to that centralization. The EPI, which you cite twice, is heavily funded by public sector unions who are the primary beneficiaries of this socialism, and puts out misleading graphs. For example, the graph showing a growing gap between wages and productivity in the first article is based on using meas…

> Income growth has stagnated because of growing centralization. All of this socialism you claim we need is contributing to that centralization. That's an unsubstantiated claim. The material you referenced points to other sources as the culprit. But let's start from the beginning. There has been wage stagnation and the workers share of the profit has been steadily shrinking ever since the 1970ies. The Bosworth piece…

>There has been wage stagnation and the workers share of the profit has been steadily shrinking ever since the 1970ies. Even the Bosworth piece you link to asserts that much.

The Brookings article asserts that the wage growth stagnation is less severe than what graphs like the EPI's show, and moreover, that the reduction in the workers share of the profit is much less severe than what the EPI graph shows.

The article explains how the primary cause of the slowdown in wage growth is a slowdown in productivity growth:

Still, the data of figure 1 clearly document a major slowdown in real wage growth. It is largely the product of poor productivity performance over the past decade

So I reiterate, that the culprit is slowing productivity growth. The massive rise in social welfare spending, and regulations, since 1950, points to left-wing policies being responsible for the slowdown, and not the free market bogeyman.

And no, the article doesn't say the workers' share has shrunk since the 1970s. It says there has been a slight decrease since 2000:

The basic stability of labor’s share up to 2000 is evident in the minor difference between the growth in labor productivity and real wages (output prices), but the increase in real wages falls short of that of productivity by a substantial ½ percent annual in the 2005-14 period

>I'm not sure I see an argument for that.

The argument is that rent-seeking parties, like those employed in public sector unions, see their incomes increase at the expense of the general population's as social welfare spending, as a percentage of GDP, rises.

This [1] is the situation in California. This [2] is the situation in New York.

>That's fine. We don't have to go back to the rates of the 1950ies. But having a person earning hundreds of thousands of USD per year paying a lower effective rate than a janitor is just cynical exploitation.

The effective tax rate of high income earners is much higher than that of a typical janitor..

>The US industry and manufacturing was doing fine - until the shareholders and the management decided it would be more profitable to offshore production.

Multiple industries went bankrupt. The passenger rail services were crushed under the growing demands of the "brotherhoods". The US Auto industry nearly collapsed. This claim that manufacturing just offshored is unfounded.

>Differences in compensation between management and workers have been continuously expanding ever since the '50ies. So there seems to money around to continue to grow some wages. Just not to grow those of the workers doing the actual work. Strange, right?

Corporate earnings growth has slowed significantly since the 1950s. Productivity growth as a whole has slowed. The US is now inhospitable to large-scale manufacturing, due to laws that put any large operation at the mercy of unions, and regulations that impose enormous compliance costs on them as well.

>Percentage of workers represented in unions has not been as low as today in the last fifty years.[3]

That doesn't matter, because the laws that ensure any large manufacturing operation will inevitably see its workforce unionize, and subsequently be mandated by the government to engage in collective bargaining with the union to the exclusion of all other parties, are still in place. They keep manufacturing from returning.

[1] https://www.hoover.org/research/california-state-government-...

[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2020/05/26/why...

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism aside, since that is a boogieman. As much as 'free-market' is boogieman. There were problems in the free market in the 1900's with employees being slaves, corporations were hiring Pinkertons and killing people. It was actual war. So Unions were the outcome. Maybe Unions were not optimal, but they were not the cause of all this, they were the outcome. Nobody formed Unions to 'extract' rents, they were formed…

> There were problems in the free market in the 1900's with employees being slaves, corporations were hiring Pinkertons and killing people. It was actual war. So Unions were the outcome. Pinkertons were brought in when unions set up picket lines, and then beat up or killed any worker who crossed it. Unions call replacement workers "scabs" to dehumanize them, so that they can rationalize brutalizing them. It was alway…

But why were there picket lines?

I don't think people were taking that risk, and dying, in order to extract rent, to merely get paid more. They were forced by working conditions and limited options. Which is what happens if corporations control all jobs, and thus removing the option to 'shop-around' in a free-market of 'job opportunities'.

If there is no option to leave, one must try to improve the current situation.

Unions were the outcome. In other cases, like current more modern solution, the government pays welfare to makeup difference in wages between corporate pay, and the amount needed to allow people to eat.

But, if Unions are Socialist and bad, and Welfare is Socialist and bad. What is next option?

If enough people are starving, and there are no safety nets, then the situation does get violent. This is where more dramatic violent revolutions come from.

Hence why Socialism is the end state of Capitalism, because Socialism is just another way to keep the poor : 'kind of ok enough to not violently revolt.'.

Socialism is the way Capitalist's put a Band-Aid on the population to keep them from revolting. Socialism and Capitalisms aren't opposites.

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cory Doctorow has a personal site: https://pluralistic.net/2023/07/24/rent-to-pwn/ Incidentally I follow him on Mastodon and saw this yesterday. Hacker News is really slow to pick up Cory Doctorow's stuff despite ostensibly being full of freedom-loving techies.

> ostensibly being full of freedom-loving techies > ostensibly this is a tech news site in an incubator. they're not here for freedom, they're here to make $$$. a non-trivial number of posters here are, or wish to be, the people that Doctorow is criticizing.

I'm calling various people's bluffs here. I already know there are plenty of people here who are less angry that Tim Apple is the phone pope and more angry that they don't get to be the phone pope.

Re: Autoenshittification. How the computer killed capitalism. – by Cory Doctorow

#200

I still have a belief that capitalism and free markets are superior, but not the way we're doing it now. I'm not trying to no true scotsman here, but a man born in germany to 2 austrian parents and dressed in a kilt is no true scotsman. as i see things there are some major issues are - Removing money from gold standard, allowing power to accrue to those who can control the supply. Instead of competing for what consum…

The gold standard was far from stable - just look at the US’s economic history - it was continually swinging between inflation and deflation with regular crises, panics, recessions and depressions. The question you need to ask is “would there generally be a relationship between the amount of gold on hand and the amount of money required in the economy?” There is no reason why the answer to that question would be “yes…

yes this is a good point. There is little specifically about gold besides rarity and intrinsic value/desirability that makes the gold standard ideal.

I actually think the function is that it's tied to _something_ of intrinsic value, that the intrinsic value isn't wildly fluctuating, and that it's roughly fixed in supply. Then by tying the currency to the resource it means that the currency cannot be created (fiat) without addressing those properties of the backing asset.

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