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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#51

Post by px43 »

mozball wrote: post #26

If this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back, there is never going to be one. Google needs to be broken up. They own the browser market. They own the web (through Adwords). They own Search. They own mobile. They own most of the video sharing market with 2.5 billion monthly annual users. They own a good chunk of email with 1.2 billion monthly annual users. They have amassed an incomprehensible amount of power…

Google broke itself up in 2015. What are you even asking for here?

Chrome and Android are open source, and there are several forks of both thriving in the ecosystem. Yeah it would be cool if there was a decent open source alternative to GMail and Drive, but no one else seems to have figured out how to get the incentives right for something like that.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#52

Post by jjulius »

px43 wrote: post #30
ailef wrote: post #4

Can somebody explain what are the practical implications of this?

Nothing will happen. People have been making the same complaints about every new crypto standard for decades, and yet here we are. TPMs are a thing, EME has been around for over a decade now, DRM on the web is as pervasive as it's ever going to get, and yet no one's user experience is any worse than it was before these technologies existed.

>DRM on the web is as pervasive as it's ever going to get...

Apple and Google only just now implemented this kind of web DRM, which absolutely can have further restrictions added to it. Careful with your absolutes.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#53

Post by knaik94 »

Since Google controls the implementation and the featureset of this API, they are effectively controlling the entire chain of access.

Having open source implementions does not make a difference, because a Google, or implementing website, server will control whether the content is served. Having the mechanism of access open sourced makes no difference in this situation.

It is the same situation with the "latent" passkey attestation mechanism. Apple and Google have general guidelines that the feature will not be used, but that only true currently. This should not be part of the browser for the same as with passkeys, it gives corporations final say in what you are allowed to use.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#54

Post by doliveira »

I was watching a video about nesting in CSS and how it's just in Chrome and comments were all about how cool it is and how they can't wait to use it, and so on, and so forth. I think it's quite a representative example: we can do that much better with SASS today, but I guess Google needs to keep features pushing at full speed so no one else can keep up.

We developers are so gullible. Just give us some shiny things and we don't even realize they're heating up the pan.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#55

Post by londons_explore »

One of the proposals for WEI is to make it probabilistically fail.

Ie. on a given device, for 10% of websites, WEI pretends to be unsupported.

That means websites can't deny service where WEI is unsupported. Yet it still allows statistical analysis across bulk user accounts.

If WEI was implemented like this, I would support it as being good for the web ecosystem.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#56

Post by LikelyABurner »

larata_media wrote: post #40
c0l0 wrote: post #5

I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…

I agree with your overall ideal of free access to information but I disagree that harassment is a necessary or even effective option to push against this. I think the harassment puts us in a category of ineffective, bitter malcontents and that’s not what we are. We are capable of going to elsewhere to free and open access to information, and we would be better off spending our energy on positively influencing others…

We’ve been doing that for years, larata_media. Decades, even.

And what do we have to show for it? Our tools power their botnets and they flaunt the CoCs in our faces when we try to do something about it as “not constructive”.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#58

Post by troupo »

px43 wrote: post #51
mozball wrote: post #26

If this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back, there is never going to be one. Google needs to be broken up. They own the browser market. They own the web (through Adwords). They own Search. They own mobile. They own most of the video sharing market with 2.5 billion monthly annual users. They own a good chunk of email with 1.2 billion monthly annual users. They have amassed an incomprehensible amount of power…

Google broke itself up in 2015. What are you even asking for here? Chrome and Android are open source, and there are several forks of both thriving in the ecosystem. Yeah it would be cool if there was a decent open source alternative to GMail and Drive, but no one else seems to have figured out how to get the incentives right for something like that.

That "incentive" for Google is "80% of our revenue comes from ads".

Google's open source projects are open in name only.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#59

Post by scarface_74 »

mozball wrote: post #26

If this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back, there is never going to be one. Google needs to be broken up. They own the browser market. They own the web (through Adwords). They own Search. They own mobile. They own most of the video sharing market with 2.5 billion monthly annual users. They own a good chunk of email with 1.2 billion monthly annual users. They have amassed an incomprehensible amount of power…

[flagged]

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#60

Post by BlargMcLarg »

px43 wrote: post #51
mozball wrote: post #26

If this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back, there is never going to be one. Google needs to be broken up. They own the browser market. They own the web (through Adwords). They own Search. They own mobile. They own most of the video sharing market with 2.5 billion monthly annual users. They own a good chunk of email with 1.2 billion monthly annual users. They have amassed an incomprehensible amount of power…

Google broke itself up in 2015. What are you even asking for here? Chrome and Android are open source, and there are several forks of both thriving in the ecosystem. Yeah it would be cool if there was a decent open source alternative to GMail and Drive, but no one else seems to have figured out how to get the incentives right for something like that.

It's not the lack of open source, it's ease of use. Alternatives exist, but no company is going to run a charity case for you to store tons of data for free. Mail in particular is commonly known to be a hassle which has nothing to do with Gmail the software, as much as Gmail the provider.
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