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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#11

Post by cmrdporcupine »

Is adding a feature-flag really the same as pushing the feature into the browser immediately? It can easily just be part of a SWE needing the flag in place in order to continue work without impacting anything else, even if that thing never ever launches.

In general Google engineers don't tend to work on branches, especially long-running ones. Incremental small code reviews are the expectation. The general process would be to stick things securely behind flags and continue development without turning it on, even if it never ever launches.

Not saying this work should be done -- it shouldn't -- but code being pushed is not the same as "we're going to make this happen tomorrow, no matter what."

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#12

Post by csomar »

ailef wrote: post #4

Can somebody explain what are the practical implications of this?

You'll need an "approved" browser and potentially "approved" hardware to access the web. Since Cloudflare is on this too, most of the web will be locked for anyone who doesn't use mainstream hardware.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#13

Post by knaik94 »

ailef wrote: post #4

Can somebody explain what are the practical implications of this?

From a very top level view, this gives Google, and other websites, the ability to block requests from devices/browsers they don't approve.

This implements device level verification of the code running your browser. If the device identifies as something Google, or other implementing websites, don't approve, you'll get an error similar to how you see 404 errors for missing/wrong links.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#14

Post by fps_doug »

djaychela wrote: post #6
lemper wrote: post #3

this is where you should vote with your wallet and feet. and I think it's not really a stretch to ask Google's engineers who work on chrome/ium to get a job somewhere else.

I think it would be interesting to get their views on it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot think this is a good idea. Not that I agree, but I think it's unlikely that everyone sees it the same way as those outside the organisation.

Obviously, if you get paid to implement this you don't want the cognitive dissonance of knowingly doing something bad, so I'm sure those folks have already laid out their justification for this technology.

I wish Google could and would make Chrome closed source. It would at least give all those rebranded Chromiums (Opera, Vivaldi, Brave) a strong reason to reconsider their choice of engine, or at least maybe work together on a more divergent fork of it that stays away from Google's evil stuff.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#15

Post by wasmy »

Another tame article in The Register:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/25/google_web_environmen...

Despite the spec's half-baked state, the blowback last week was swift – in the form of a flood of largely critical comments posted to the WEI GitHub repository, and abuse directed at the authors of the proposal. The Google devs' response was to limit comment posting to those who had previously contributed to the repo and to post a Code of Conduct document as a reminder to be civil.

The usual way to deal with opposition these days.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#16

Post by knaik94 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #11

Is adding a feature-flag really the same as pushing the feature into the browser immediately? It can easily just be part of a SWE needing the flag in place in order to continue work without impacting anything else, even if that thing never ever launches. In general Google engineers don't tend to work on branches, especially long-running ones. Incremental small code reviews are the expectation. The general process wou…

Yes, because a feature flag shows intent to implement it before any real discussion have taken place with privacy and non-corporate security advocates.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#17

Post by orlp »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #11

Is adding a feature-flag really the same as pushing the feature into the browser immediately? It can easily just be part of a SWE needing the flag in place in order to continue work without impacting anything else, even if that thing never ever launches. In general Google engineers don't tend to work on branches, especially long-running ones. Incremental small code reviews are the expectation. The general process wou…

> Is adding a feature-flag really the same as pushing the feature into the browser immediately?

"Don't mind me guys, I'm barely boiling the frog."

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#18

Post by doliveira »

c0l0 wrote: post #5

I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…

Yeah, financial and social pressure is basically the only weapons we have against corporations when regulations don't exist. And honestly, financial pressure doesn't work at this scale or in this case.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#19

Post by smallstepforman »

ailef wrote: post #4

Can somebody explain what are the practical implications of this?

The Browser application needs to pass a binary image check, and if the browser hash doesn't match Google database, you cannot proceed to the website (since your browser may be corrupted). A major big deal for non main-stream browser, and for non Google browser developers, extension developers (eg. AdBlock), etc. In summary, some websites (like banks, Netflix, etc) will no longer be available for non mainstream browser users. Also, even if you're using Google Chrome, you may need to run the latest version to satisfy the hash check. Every day, the number of broken websites will continue growing until all non Google Chrome users have a blocked internet.
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